11 ms·

when it comes to slightly more non simple use cases involving parallelism and concurrency python and their imperative kin starts falling quite short of basic ne

when it comes to slightly more non simple use cases involving parallelism and concurrency python and their imperative kin starts falling quite short of basic needs that are easily satisfied by fp languages like ocaml haskell racket common lisp erlang elixir or rust/golang but even if the code is single threaded and not hampered by GIL limitations python tends to be super slow imho; also debugging dynamic python and imperative stateful python after a certain code base size >10k LOC gets extremely painful

ironman1478 4y ago
A lot of these problem spaces can get away with single threaded performance because maybe they're generating a report or running an analysis once a day or at even slower frequency. I work in a field where numerical correctness and readability is important for prototyping control algorithms (I work on advanced sensors) and python satisfies for those properties for our analysis and prototyping work. When we really want or need performance we rewrite the slow part in C++ and use pybind to call into it. For all the real implementations that run in a soft real time system, everything is done in C++ or C depending on the ecosystem.
- noloblo 4y ago
  debugging dynamic python and imperative stateful python after a certain code base size >10k LOC gets extremely painful for any meaningful scale you are better served by basic FP hygiene as evidenced in haskell elixir CL/racket or rust/golang
  - namaria 4y ago
    I agree. But most people just need a pick up truck, not forming railway consists.
  - cjalmeida 4y ago
    I don’t get it. Go is as imperative as a language can be.
    - noloblo 4y ago
      go is imperative but there are functional elegant styles borrowed from otp/erlang in ergo https://github.com/ergo-services/ergo https://github.com/ergo-services/ergo https://memo.barrucadu.co.uk/three-months-of-go.html https://memo.barrucadu.co.uk/three-months-of-go.html
  - ironman1478 4y ago
    Because you say it doesn't make it true. It's not that painful or painful at all really. Good abstractions and planning make writing and maintaining a python easy, just like in any language.
  - tmtvl 4y ago
    Common Lisp, paragon of FP: (loop for x across numbers when (evenp x) do (setf result (+ result x))) I mean yeah, you can do FP in CL, but it allows you to program in any paradigm which you prefer.

ironman1478 4y ago

A lot of these problem spaces can get away with single threaded performance because maybe they're generating a report or running an analysis once a day or at even slower frequency. I work in a field where numerical correctness and readability is important for prototyping control algorithms (I work on advanced sensors) and python satisfies for those properties for our analysis and prototyping work. When we really want or need performance we rewrite the slow part in C++ and use pybind to call into it. For all the real implementations that run in a soft real time system, everything is done in C++ or C depending on the ecosystem.

noloblo 4y ago
debugging dynamic python and imperative stateful python after a certain code base size >10k LOC gets extremely painful for any meaningful scale you are better served by basic FP hygiene as evidenced in haskell elixir CL/racket or rust/golang
- namaria 4y ago
  I agree. But most people just need a pick up truck, not forming railway consists.
- cjalmeida 4y ago
  I don’t get it. Go is as imperative as a language can be.
  - noloblo 4y ago
    go is imperative but there are functional elegant styles borrowed from otp/erlang in ergo https://github.com/ergo-services/ergo https://github.com/ergo-services/ergo https://memo.barrucadu.co.uk/three-months-of-go.html https://memo.barrucadu.co.uk/three-months-of-go.html
- ironman1478 4y ago
  Because you say it doesn't make it true. It's not that painful or painful at all really. Good abstractions and planning make writing and maintaining a python easy, just like in any language.
- tmtvl 4y ago
  Common Lisp, paragon of FP: (loop for x across numbers when (evenp x) do (setf result (+ result x))) I mean yeah, you can do FP in CL, but it allows you to program in any paradigm which you prefer.