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And we can thank Tesla for that, not even because of the issues of their system there will always be some, but because of the issues with their PR and marketing

by nolok 4y ago

And we can thank Tesla for that, not even because of the issues of their system there will always be some, but because of the issues with their PR and marketing. If you promote something as "autopilot" and "full self driving" and "safe" and yes sure the fine line says you need to stay alert and ready to act in under two seconds but the marketing really implies it's just a regulatory thing, and then you have said system kill people because it's not self driving at all it's drive assists, then people lose confidence. Hell, even people who are fully aware of that are getting worried now, not because they don't understand what it is or isn't, but because they worry the person behind the wheel might be misunderstanding.

freedomben 4y ago
You don't think the news media deserves any thanks? It's well known that the media locks on to anything that causes fear as it's the number one driver of clicks/attention, and it's been a deluge all over the incidents the last couple of years. I'm not making a value judgment on whether this is good or bad (I truly don't know), but it is important to know.
- nolok 4y ago
  Not really, nobody was scared of line keeping cars despite them having essentially the same risks, because nobody ever thought they could close their eyes or play on their phones or watch a movie while line keeping is enabled. Some people did, and crash happened, and people died, but when it did everyone saw it as "another idiot in a car endangering people", not a failure of the car's system.
- trimbo 4y ago
  It's not like they were hammering on some obscure startup. The world's richest man promoted FSD at every opportunity for years and sold it to customers.
brandonagr2 4y ago
The car is self driving, while the driver monitors and is responsible for its operation at all times. How is that a difficult concept? The car tells the driver this every single time autopilot is engaged. Why do people work so hard to intentionally misunderstand what self driving and autopilot mean? (they don't mean autonomous)
- duxup 4y ago
  > people work so hard to intentionally misunderstand what self driving and autopilot mean Perhaps they sincerely think of it differently than you do?
- mlyle 4y ago
  > Why do people work so hard to intentionally misunderstand what self driving and autopilot mean? (they don't mean autonomous) Because of statements like this: "The person in the driver's seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself." Because the ways that real humans use the system. People defeating the wheel and texting is commonplace. It is just reliable enough to disable human vigilance and then be really unsafe.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  > Why do people work so hard to intentionally misunderstand what self driving and autopilot mean? (they don't mean autonomous) "People" here includes the CEO of the company selling the damn things.
- nathanaldensr 4y ago
  It seems to me you're the one working hard giving humans far too much credit for being as aware and cognizant of things as you are. People buy Teslas because they are fashion statements, not because they are anal super detail-oriented Type A personalities.
- nolok 4y ago
  Like I said, there is a difference between the facts, that you state, and how the PR and marketing are presenting them. You don't even need to go far at all, here are the very first words, right now, on tesla "autopilot" page [1]: > Tesla cars come standard with advanced hardware capable of providing Autopilot features, and full self-driving capabilities You cannot in good conscience tell me that this doesn't implies something different than reality, and please don't be one of those that try to claim "no, the word autopilot doesn't ring any bell in people's head they don't have any preconception". You need to go all the way down half the page, a full 4 scrolls down on my 1600px tall screen, to see "Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous." So yes, like I said, the fine line always give the trick. But the marketing pushed forward implies something different, and if marketing didn't work we wouldn't be doing it. (that's just one exemple amongst lots of them) [1] : https://www.tesla.com/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/autopilot
pfisch 4y ago
It's more than that. Elon Musk has made himself a lightning rod with all his crazy person antics. People want to pile on him and if a video of a tesla going haywire helps them do that then it gets spread around everywhere far beyond normal public interest in such a thing.
- nolok 4y ago
  I disagree, I think this is a very tech community centric point of view. You will find most people outside of this circle cares very little about Elon Musk when thinking "do I worry or not about autonomous cars when going to buy groceries or crossing the street with my daughter".
  - pfisch 4y ago
    It isn't just the tech community on twitter. He has become a political figure and that goes way beyond just tech community.

by nolok 4y ago

freedomben 4y ago

You don't think the news media deserves any thanks? It's well known that the media locks on to anything that causes fear as it's the number one driver of clicks/attention, and it's been a deluge all over the incidents the last couple of years. I'm not making a value judgment on whether this is good or bad (I truly don't know), but it is important to know.

nolok 4y ago
Not really, nobody was scared of line keeping cars despite them having essentially the same risks, because nobody ever thought they could close their eyes or play on their phones or watch a movie while line keeping is enabled. Some people did, and crash happened, and people died, but when it did everyone saw it as "another idiot in a car endangering people", not a failure of the car's system.
trimbo 4y ago
It's not like they were hammering on some obscure startup. The world's richest man promoted FSD at every opportunity for years and sold it to customers.

brandonagr2 4y ago

The car is self driving, while the driver monitors and is responsible for its operation at all times. How is that a difficult concept? The car tells the driver this every single time autopilot is engaged. Why do people work so hard to intentionally misunderstand what self driving and autopilot mean? (they don't mean autonomous)

duxup 4y ago
> people work so hard to intentionally misunderstand what self driving and autopilot mean Perhaps they sincerely think of it differently than you do?
mlyle 4y ago
> Why do people work so hard to intentionally misunderstand what self driving and autopilot mean? (they don't mean autonomous) Because of statements like this: "The person in the driver's seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself." Because the ways that real humans use the system. People defeating the wheel and texting is commonplace. It is just reliable enough to disable human vigilance and then be really unsafe.
AlexandrB 4y ago
> Why do people work so hard to intentionally misunderstand what self driving and autopilot mean? (they don't mean autonomous) "People" here includes the CEO of the company selling the damn things.
nathanaldensr 4y ago
It seems to me you're the one working hard giving humans far too much credit for being as aware and cognizant of things as you are. People buy Teslas because they are fashion statements, not because they are anal super detail-oriented Type A personalities.
nolok 4y ago
Like I said, there is a difference between the facts, that you state, and how the PR and marketing are presenting them. You don't even need to go far at all, here are the very first words, right now, on tesla "autopilot" page [1]: > Tesla cars come standard with advanced hardware capable of providing Autopilot features, and full self-driving capabilities You cannot in good conscience tell me that this doesn't implies something different than reality, and please don't be one of those that try to claim "no, the word autopilot doesn't ring any bell in people's head they don't have any preconception". You need to go all the way down half the page, a full 4 scrolls down on my 1600px tall screen, to see "Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous." So yes, like I said, the fine line always give the trick. But the marketing pushed forward implies something different, and if marketing didn't work we wouldn't be doing it. (that's just one exemple amongst lots of them) [1] : https://www.tesla.com/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

pfisch 4y ago

It's more than that. Elon Musk has made himself a lightning rod with all his crazy person antics. People want to pile on him and if a video of a tesla going haywire helps them do that then it gets spread around everywhere far beyond normal public interest in such a thing.

nolok 4y ago
I disagree, I think this is a very tech community centric point of view. You will find most people outside of this circle cares very little about Elon Musk when thinking "do I worry or not about autonomous cars when going to buy groceries or crossing the street with my daughter".
- pfisch 4y ago
  It isn't just the tech community on twitter. He has become a political figure and that goes way beyond just tech community.