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Someone I know drives an M series BMW and was considering a Tesla switch because his close friend in LA told him the autopilot is so good, he can now routinely

Someone I know drives an M series BMW and was considering a Tesla switch because his close friend in LA told him the autopilot is so good, he can now routinely drive home drunk (this was a guy in his mid 30s with a kid). As a result, my friend now also had confidence autopilot was reliable, no matter what I told him. So, relative to the confidence most non-technical people seem to have had, this percentage is still not high enough. Like most tech adoption curves, the hype here is still too high relative to reality. However, if you are someone who actually understands L1 - L4 scale, I think you should strongly correct people who don't. Believing in the hype in crypto might lose you some money. Believing in the hype in self driving might lose you a life.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
Pretty sure if you get pulled over driving home on autopilot drunk, you're still getting a DUI. It's amazing to me what people will do to save a few bucks on taxi fare.
- obblekk 4y ago
  Definitely. But people believe they won't get pulled over because the car will drive itself fine.
  - zamnos 4y ago
    If autopilot means the car isn't swerving around like a drunken idiot is driving, where's the probable cause to pull people over?
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Since when have cops needed probable cause?
    - lm28469 4y ago
      DUI checkpoints The autopilot doing its habitual random shenanigans that makes it look exactly like a drunk driver is at the wheel You being asleep at the wheel &c.
      - rootusrootus 4y ago
        > DUI checkpoints One of the nice things about living in the PNW is that both Oregon and Washington prohibit such unconstitutional crap.
        lm28469 4y ago
        I'm real glad they have DUI checks outside of night clubs during the weekend here, they bust hundreds of drunk drivers before they get on the roads. Alcohol is responsible for 30% of road deaths here, 23% due to other drugs. That's a lot of death you can avoid with a 30 seconds spit test
        op00to 4y ago
        DUI checkpoints are set up to only catch the stupidest of criminals. At least in my neck of the woods, they publish the locations of the checkpoints in advance, and are always on arterial roads, but never state highways or interstates. It's entirely possible to avoid the checkpoints altogether. If you're stupid enough to get wrapped up in one of those, you probably shouldn't be drinking or driving.
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      I once got pulled over because I was using autopilot. And I was stone cold sober. Damn thing just couldn't figure out how to do easy corners on I-5 without ping-ponging. Turns out there was a cop behind me. Fortunately it was resolved quickly with chuckles all around.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    They're probably pretty close to right. When I think back to impaired drivers I've noticed on the road, the first two things I've noticed were inadequate lane-keeping and wild/baseless speed changes. Autopilot is good enough to mask those two signals. (I'm not saying this is a good idea; I'm just saying they're probably correct in that it reduces their chance to be pulled over.)
- truculent 4y ago
  I think there are worse outcomes here than getting a fine
- sho_hn 4y ago
  In urban environments in high-density countries like South Korea it's fairly pervasive that you can use a phone app to call a driver. They will drive your car home for you.
  - guenthert 4y ago
    > In urban environments in high-density countries That would be urban environments in high-density countries with low wages. That driver needs to get to the car and home and someone needs to pay for that.
    - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
      Mass Transit is an affordable option in places outside the US...
- freedomben 4y ago
  I don't in any way support drunk driving, but I do think it's unfair to frame it as "a few bucks." That would only be true if you were within walking distance and sharing a cab with others. For most of the situations I've been in, it's more like $60 plus a big gamble that there will be any rides available. In many areas Uber/Lyft are the only options and during low hours (particularly early morning 12 to 2) there aren't any drivers.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - AlexandrB 4y ago
    In the context of buying a $50,000 car + whatever FSD/autopilot costs instead, it's fair to call $60 "a few bucks".
    - freedomben 4y ago
      I would agree if the buying the car was only for driving home from the bar. That seems unlikely. I would guess that in nearly all cases, the person already owned the car before they even decided to go to the bar that night.
scarby2 4y ago
> he can now routinely drive home drunk > So, relative to the confidence most non-technical people seem to have had, this percentage is still not high enough. My confidence in self driving cars is boosted by my extremely low confidence in people. I know too many drivers who have no business being on the road sober, and other people who routinely drive drunk. I'm confident self driving isn't there yet, i'm also pretty sure that it won't be too long before it gets better than the average driver.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  Self-driving is not going to be better than the average driver for a long time. But 2 things. 1) average doesn't matter. There's unlikely to be extremely bad self-driving cars. 2) the road & nature of transportation will adapt to self-driving cars so that they don't need to be as good as they need to be on current roads, and eventually it won't matter (but that's like 20 years in the future). If you would've looked at cities when the car was invented, you'd have thought that cars would never catch on. Cities adapted to the car. They'll adapt to self-driving. But it's going to take a long time.
  - slackdog 4y ago
    > 2) the road & nature of transportation will adapt to self-driving cars Are you kidding? Most of this country can barely keep potholes patched for the benefit of regular cars. Proposing major infrastructure spending to accommodate luxury car features is surely a joke.
    - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
      The cool things is, you don't have to spend tons of money [=
  - smileysteve 4y ago
    There's the average driver paying attention. And then there is the average driver being distracted -- by cell phone, by alcohol, by passengers in the car, from road rage. Frankly, the average IQ is 100; self driving should be able to surpass that in reaction time, physics (following distance), and legality; so I think it's likely 75% better than than the average driver. But 100% better than the 50% that are distracted.
moremetadata 4y ago
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=amish+drunk+driving https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=amish+drunk+dri... The Amish have been reminding Americans what they miss out on by ignoring their past. In fact anyone with a horse and likes a drink at the pub, knows its best to the take horse and not the car!
- op00to 4y ago
  In Pennsylvania, a horse or house and buggy are considered vehicles. You are violating DUI laws just as much as if you're driving a car.
- ccooffee 4y ago
  California's Vehicle Code (VEH) would still allow for a DUI charge when riding a horse. According to urban legend (and a lot of dubious websites), there are cases where Californians have been convicted of a DUI on a horse, though I haven't been able to find reputable sources for those claims. VEH 1.670 [0] > A “vehicle” is a device by which any person or property may be propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved exclusively by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks. VEH 11.12.23152(a) [1] > It is unlawful for a person who is under the influence of any alcoholic beverage to drive a vehicle. [0] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=670 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio.... [1] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=23152.&lawCode=VEH https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    IIRC many states other than just CA will give you a DUI for driving a lawn tractor drunk. On the road, at least. And in plenty of places just being in the car drunk is enough, even if you're in the back seat trying to sleep it off.
    - pclmulqdq 4y ago
      If you're capable of operating the vehicle, it can still count. A driving instructor once told me that if you have to sleep off drunkenness in the car, find a place to hide the key (ideally outside the car) so you are not considered capable of operating it. Really, these laws are pretty absurd, but drunk driving kills a lot of people so here we are.
goldenchrome 4y ago
This is more of an indictment of alcoholism than self driving cars. Anyone who’s routinely getting drunk has a big problem that will cloud their judgement.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago

Pretty sure if you get pulled over driving home on autopilot drunk, you're still getting a DUI. It's amazing to me what people will do to save a few bucks on taxi fare.

obblekk 4y ago
Definitely. But people believe they won't get pulled over because the car will drive itself fine.
- zamnos 4y ago
  If autopilot means the car isn't swerving around like a drunken idiot is driving, where's the probable cause to pull people over?
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Since when have cops needed probable cause?
  - lm28469 4y ago
    DUI checkpoints The autopilot doing its habitual random shenanigans that makes it look exactly like a drunk driver is at the wheel You being asleep at the wheel &c.
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      > DUI checkpoints One of the nice things about living in the PNW is that both Oregon and Washington prohibit such unconstitutional crap.
      - lm28469 4y ago
        I'm real glad they have DUI checks outside of night clubs during the weekend here, they bust hundreds of drunk drivers before they get on the roads. Alcohol is responsible for 30% of road deaths here, 23% due to other drugs. That's a lot of death you can avoid with a 30 seconds spit test
      - op00to 4y ago
        DUI checkpoints are set up to only catch the stupidest of criminals. At least in my neck of the woods, they publish the locations of the checkpoints in advance, and are always on arterial roads, but never state highways or interstates. It's entirely possible to avoid the checkpoints altogether. If you're stupid enough to get wrapped up in one of those, you probably shouldn't be drinking or driving.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    I once got pulled over because I was using autopilot. And I was stone cold sober. Damn thing just couldn't figure out how to do easy corners on I-5 without ping-ponging. Turns out there was a cop behind me. Fortunately it was resolved quickly with chuckles all around.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  They're probably pretty close to right. When I think back to impaired drivers I've noticed on the road, the first two things I've noticed were inadequate lane-keeping and wild/baseless speed changes. Autopilot is good enough to mask those two signals. (I'm not saying this is a good idea; I'm just saying they're probably correct in that it reduces their chance to be pulled over.)
truculent 4y ago
I think there are worse outcomes here than getting a fine
sho_hn 4y ago
In urban environments in high-density countries like South Korea it's fairly pervasive that you can use a phone app to call a driver. They will drive your car home for you.
- guenthert 4y ago
  > In urban environments in high-density countries That would be urban environments in high-density countries with low wages. That driver needs to get to the car and home and someone needs to pay for that.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
    Mass Transit is an affordable option in places outside the US...
freedomben 4y ago
I don't in any way support drunk driving, but I do think it's unfair to frame it as "a few bucks." That would only be true if you were within walking distance and sharing a cab with others. For most of the situations I've been in, it's more like $60 plus a big gamble that there will be any rides available. In many areas Uber/Lyft are the only options and during low hours (particularly early morning 12 to 2) there aren't any drivers.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  In the context of buying a $50,000 car + whatever FSD/autopilot costs instead, it's fair to call $60 "a few bucks".
  - freedomben 4y ago
    I would agree if the buying the car was only for driving home from the bar. That seems unlikely. I would guess that in nearly all cases, the person already owned the car before they even decided to go to the bar that night.

scarby2 4y ago

> he can now routinely drive home drunk > So, relative to the confidence most non-technical people seem to have had, this percentage is still not high enough. My confidence in self driving cars is boosted by my extremely low confidence in people. I know too many drivers who have no business being on the road sober, and other people who routinely drive drunk. I'm confident self driving isn't there yet, i'm also pretty sure that it won't be too long before it gets better than the average driver.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
Self-driving is not going to be better than the average driver for a long time. But 2 things. 1) average doesn't matter. There's unlikely to be extremely bad self-driving cars. 2) the road & nature of transportation will adapt to self-driving cars so that they don't need to be as good as they need to be on current roads, and eventually it won't matter (but that's like 20 years in the future). If you would've looked at cities when the car was invented, you'd have thought that cars would never catch on. Cities adapted to the car. They'll adapt to self-driving. But it's going to take a long time.
- slackdog 4y ago
  > 2) the road & nature of transportation will adapt to self-driving cars Are you kidding? Most of this country can barely keep potholes patched for the benefit of regular cars. Proposing major infrastructure spending to accommodate luxury car features is surely a joke.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
    The cool things is, you don't have to spend tons of money [=
- smileysteve 4y ago
  There's the average driver paying attention. And then there is the average driver being distracted -- by cell phone, by alcohol, by passengers in the car, from road rage. Frankly, the average IQ is 100; self driving should be able to surpass that in reaction time, physics (following distance), and legality; so I think it's likely 75% better than than the average driver. But 100% better than the 50% that are distracted.

moremetadata 4y ago

> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=amish+drunk+driving https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=amish+drunk+dri... The Amish have been reminding Americans what they miss out on by ignoring their past. In fact anyone with a horse and likes a drink at the pub, knows its best to the take horse and not the car!

op00to 4y ago
In Pennsylvania, a horse or house and buggy are considered vehicles. You are violating DUI laws just as much as if you're driving a car.
ccooffee 4y ago
California's Vehicle Code (VEH) would still allow for a DUI charge when riding a horse. According to urban legend (and a lot of dubious websites), there are cases where Californians have been convicted of a DUI on a horse, though I haven't been able to find reputable sources for those claims. VEH 1.670 [0] > A “vehicle” is a device by which any person or property may be propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved exclusively by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks. VEH 11.12.23152(a) [1] > It is unlawful for a person who is under the influence of any alcoholic beverage to drive a vehicle. [0] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=670 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio.... [1] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=23152.&lawCode=VEH https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  IIRC many states other than just CA will give you a DUI for driving a lawn tractor drunk. On the road, at least. And in plenty of places just being in the car drunk is enough, even if you're in the back seat trying to sleep it off.
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    If you're capable of operating the vehicle, it can still count. A driving instructor once told me that if you have to sleep off drunkenness in the car, find a place to hide the key (ideally outside the car) so you are not considered capable of operating it. Really, these laws are pretty absurd, but drunk driving kills a lot of people so here we are.

goldenchrome 4y ago

This is more of an indictment of alcoholism than self driving cars. Anyone who’s routinely getting drunk has a big problem that will cloud their judgement.