3 ms·

Lets save the planet with further exploitation of the planet.

by adshouts 4y ago

thehappypm 4y ago
What’s the alternative? Continue with fossil fuels? Pick your poison.
- chuckwolfe 4y ago
  I see no reason why we can’t have both. Let the free market decide.
- adshouts 4y ago
  There is no good alternative unfortunately, but the belief that electric cars are "better" for the planet is utterly ridiculous and false.
  - thehappypm 4y ago
    How so?
    - adshouts 4y ago
      The total energy cost of producing and using the Tesla Model S Long Range battery pack for example, including battery production, lithium extraction, transportation, the energy cost of building the Gigafactory, battery transportation, battery recycling, diesel fuel required to generate electricity to charge the battery, and the environmental costs of battery disposal and battery fires, is equivalent to about 3,088,431 barrels of oil.
      - thehappypm 4y ago
        That’s like, one oil tanker to produce an entire fleet of cars?
        adshouts 4y ago
        Source: https://clifhigh.substack.com/p/3-million-barrels-of-oil-per-batt?r=jy267&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email https://clifhigh.substack.com/p/3-million-barrels-of-oil-per...
        philipkglass 4y ago
        This analysis is off by orders of magnitude. Tesla shipped 1.3 million vehicles in 2022, each of which contained a battery pack [1]. 3 million barrels of oil contains 6.1 * 10^15 joules of primary energy [2]. World primary energy production in 2021 was 5.95 * 10^20 joules [3]. Combining these numbers, Tesla's 1.3 * 10^6 battery packs shipped in 2022 would have taken 7.93 * 10^21 joules to manufacture. This is more than 10 times annual global energy production and is clearly in error. Another way to spot-check and reject this number is to note that 3 million barrels of oil would cost in the neighborhood of $240 million. Getting that much energy from coal might cost only $75 million per vehicle but it's still a proposition that would see Tesla losing approximately $100 trillion dollars per year on sales of 1.3 million vehicles. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/02/investing/tesla-deliveries-production/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/02/investing/tesla-deliveries-pr... [2] https://www.ocean.washington.edu/courses/envir215/energynumbers.pdf https://www.ocean.washington.edu/courses/envir215/energynumb... [3] https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/corporate/pdfs/energy-economics/statistical-review/bp-stats-review-2022-full-report.pdf https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/c...

Lets save the planet with further exploitation of the planet.

thehappypm 4y ago

What’s the alternative? Continue with fossil fuels? Pick your poison.

chuckwolfe 4y ago
I see no reason why we can’t have both. Let the free market decide.
adshouts 4y ago
There is no good alternative unfortunately, but the belief that electric cars are "better" for the planet is utterly ridiculous and false.
- thehappypm 4y ago
  How so?
  - adshouts 4y ago
    The total energy cost of producing and using the Tesla Model S Long Range battery pack for example, including battery production, lithium extraction, transportation, the energy cost of building the Gigafactory, battery transportation, battery recycling, diesel fuel required to generate electricity to charge the battery, and the environmental costs of battery disposal and battery fires, is equivalent to about 3,088,431 barrels of oil.
    - thehappypm 4y ago
      That’s like, one oil tanker to produce an entire fleet of cars?
      - adshouts 4y ago
        Source: https://clifhigh.substack.com/p/3-million-barrels-of-oil-per-batt?r=jy267&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email https://clifhigh.substack.com/p/3-million-barrels-of-oil-per...
        philipkglass 4y ago
        This analysis is off by orders of magnitude. Tesla shipped 1.3 million vehicles in 2022, each of which contained a battery pack [1]. 3 million barrels of oil contains 6.1 * 10^15 joules of primary energy [2]. World primary energy production in 2021 was 5.95 * 10^20 joules [3]. Combining these numbers, Tesla's 1.3 * 10^6 battery packs shipped in 2022 would have taken 7.93 * 10^21 joules to manufacture. This is more than 10 times annual global energy production and is clearly in error. Another way to spot-check and reject this number is to note that 3 million barrels of oil would cost in the neighborhood of $240 million. Getting that much energy from coal might cost only $75 million per vehicle but it's still a proposition that would see Tesla losing approximately $100 trillion dollars per year on sales of 1.3 million vehicles. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/02/investing/tesla-deliveries-production/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/02/investing/tesla-deliveries-pr... [2] https://www.ocean.washington.edu/courses/envir215/energynumbers.pdf https://www.ocean.washington.edu/courses/envir215/energynumb... [3] https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/corporate/pdfs/energy-economics/statistical-review/bp-stats-review-2022-full-report.pdf https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/c...