5 ms·

Didn’t realize the model doesn’t want people using it. That holds more weight in my mind than the fact that it was in playboy.

iamflimflam1 4y ago
Yes, this definitely changes things. Previously the model didn't seem to be bothered and seemed to find it all quite amusing. People change their minds and we should respect their wishes.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  > People change their minds and we should respect their wishes. When you sign a contract that says "in return for a bunch of money, you agree that other people can use this picture of you", you shouldn't get to keep the money but change your mind about the picture.
  - iamflimflam1 4y ago
    Strictly speaking, she was paid money by playboy to appear in playboy - not to appear in the many research publications that have carried the image. None of the researchers using the image had permission to use it nor did the journals that published the papers. Playboy did decide in the end to look the other way as it was good publicity.
benj111 4y ago
Really? Presumably she was paid. I don't know what the copyright situation is, but assuming she doesn't hold that I don't know what the issue is. Isn't it like trump objecting to images of his in court accompanying a news item?
- Version467 4y ago
  That she likely has no legal recourse does not mean that developers and researchers cannot respect her wishes. It's not like this specific image has an inherent property that somehow makes it the superior test image.
  - jerf 4y ago
    To me, that's the real kicker; there's absolutely no cost whatsoever to respecting the wishes. If anything, it's not a great image; the standard scan is a bit washed out and doesn't have a full color range. (I can't speak to whether this is a characteristic of the scan, which is now from a very old scanner, or the original image, having never seen the original in print.) No one test image can capture everything an image algorithm might want to test, but more full use of available colors would probably still be advantageous.
  - benj111 4y ago
    >It's not like this specific image has an inherent property that somehow makes it the superior test image. Surely that fact that it is the standard test image makes it a superior image. If there's a format that I can't reproduce, there's a good chance there's an image of Lena to compare against.
- vidarh 4y ago
  Do you not see the difference between the issue of whether it can legally be used, and the issue of whether or not it's nice to keep using it when the person involved would prefer it not be? She, like Trump, is entitled to her opinion. And sometimes people want to respect people's opinions, sometimes not.
enriquto 4y ago
It's not so clear that she doesn't want people to use that image. She has assisted several times at image processing conferences, and has stated recently that she was proud of the fact that so many people used that photo. The documentary linked above shows footage of herself talking about the photo, but she never really says people should not use it. The website hosting the documentary has several heavily editorialized quotations that suggest that. That said, this new "lennart" is hilarious and I would like to use it instead of the original one. EDIT: here's a 2019 interview where she appears to pose with the same hat again : https://www.wired.com/story/finding-lena-the-patron-saint-of-jpegs/ https://www.wired.com/story/finding-lena-the-patron-saint-of...
- pseudalopex 4y ago
  “I retired from modelling a long time ago. It’s time I retired from tech, too. We can make a simple change today that creates a lasting change for tomorrow. Let’s commit to losing me.” She can be proud of her work and not want it used where it makes other people uncomfortable.
sorenjan 4y ago
It's not really up to models to decide what their pictures gets used for though. Why should this be different? From what I gather it's not because she's uncomfortable with it being used, it's because of controversy other people have drummed up: > When I asked her if she had heard anything about the recent controversy around her image, she seemed alarmed at the thought that she could have a part in hurting or discouraging young women. I sent her some articles about the Lenna and later gave her a call to see what she made of them. The photo, she said, doesn’t show very much—just down to her shoulders—so it was hard for her to see what the big deal was. https://www.wired.com/story/finding-lena-the-patron-saint-of-jpegs/ https://www.wired.com/story/finding-lena-the-patron-saint-of... Not that it really matters that much, it's a historical curiosity by now.
- vidarh 4y ago
  She doesn't have any way to force people to stop, but that doesn't mean people can't take her opinion into account.
  - sorenjan 4y ago
    Her opinion doesn't seem to match the articles claim: > Lena doesn’t harbor any resentment toward Sawchuk and his imitators for how they appropriated her image; the only note of regret she expressed was that she wasn’t better compensated. In her view, the photograph is an immense accomplishment that just happened to take on a life of its own. “I’m really proud of that picture,” she said.
    - pseudalopex 4y ago
      “I retired from modelling a long time ago. It’s time I retired from tech, too. We can make a simple change today that creates a lasting change for tomorrow. Let’s commit to losing me.”[1] Being proud of her work doesn't mean she thinks people should have to see it in their work. [1] https://www.thedrum.com/news/2019/11/19/gender-equality-ad-calls-time-playboy-model-lena-image-led-jpeg-invention https://www.thedrum.com/news/2019/11/19/gender-equality-ad-c...
- 4y ago
Findecanor 4y ago
... And here I had tracked down her address and was about to mail her a print-out, with a request to ask her to sign it. I had been planning to display it in a glass cabinet next to my Melitta teapot and Luxo jr lamp and ball. (and if anyone has a lead on a terracotta rabbit, please let me know ;)

iamflimflam1 4y ago

Yes, this definitely changes things. Previously the model didn't seem to be bothered and seemed to find it all quite amusing. People change their minds and we should respect their wishes.

josephcsible 4y ago
> People change their minds and we should respect their wishes. When you sign a contract that says "in return for a bunch of money, you agree that other people can use this picture of you", you shouldn't get to keep the money but change your mind about the picture.
- iamflimflam1 4y ago
  Strictly speaking, she was paid money by playboy to appear in playboy - not to appear in the many research publications that have carried the image. None of the researchers using the image had permission to use it nor did the journals that published the papers. Playboy did decide in the end to look the other way as it was good publicity.

benj111 4y ago

Really? Presumably she was paid. I don't know what the copyright situation is, but assuming she doesn't hold that I don't know what the issue is. Isn't it like trump objecting to images of his in court accompanying a news item?

Version467 4y ago
That she likely has no legal recourse does not mean that developers and researchers cannot respect her wishes. It's not like this specific image has an inherent property that somehow makes it the superior test image.
- jerf 4y ago
  To me, that's the real kicker; there's absolutely no cost whatsoever to respecting the wishes. If anything, it's not a great image; the standard scan is a bit washed out and doesn't have a full color range. (I can't speak to whether this is a characteristic of the scan, which is now from a very old scanner, or the original image, having never seen the original in print.) No one test image can capture everything an image algorithm might want to test, but more full use of available colors would probably still be advantageous.
- benj111 4y ago
  >It's not like this specific image has an inherent property that somehow makes it the superior test image. Surely that fact that it is the standard test image makes it a superior image. If there's a format that I can't reproduce, there's a good chance there's an image of Lena to compare against.
vidarh 4y ago
Do you not see the difference between the issue of whether it can legally be used, and the issue of whether or not it's nice to keep using it when the person involved would prefer it not be? She, like Trump, is entitled to her opinion. And sometimes people want to respect people's opinions, sometimes not.

enriquto 4y ago

It's not so clear that she doesn't want people to use that image. She has assisted several times at image processing conferences, and has stated recently that she was proud of the fact that so many people used that photo. The documentary linked above shows footage of herself talking about the photo, but she never really says people should not use it. The website hosting the documentary has several heavily editorialized quotations that suggest that. That said, this new "lennart" is hilarious and I would like to use it instead of the original one. EDIT: here's a 2019 interview where she appears to pose with the same hat again : https://www.wired.com/story/finding-lena-the-patron-saint-of-jpegs/ https://www.wired.com/story/finding-lena-the-patron-saint-of...

pseudalopex 4y ago
“I retired from modelling a long time ago. It’s time I retired from tech, too. We can make a simple change today that creates a lasting change for tomorrow. Let’s commit to losing me.” She can be proud of her work and not want it used where it makes other people uncomfortable.

sorenjan 4y ago

It's not really up to models to decide what their pictures gets used for though. Why should this be different? From what I gather it's not because she's uncomfortable with it being used, it's because of controversy other people have drummed up: > When I asked her if she had heard anything about the recent controversy around her image, she seemed alarmed at the thought that she could have a part in hurting or discouraging young women. I sent her some articles about the Lenna and later gave her a call to see what she made of them. The photo, she said, doesn’t show very much—just down to her shoulders—so it was hard for her to see what the big deal was. https://www.wired.com/story/finding-lena-the-patron-saint-of-jpegs/ https://www.wired.com/story/finding-lena-the-patron-saint-of... Not that it really matters that much, it's a historical curiosity by now.

vidarh 4y ago
She doesn't have any way to force people to stop, but that doesn't mean people can't take her opinion into account.
- sorenjan 4y ago
  Her opinion doesn't seem to match the articles claim: > Lena doesn’t harbor any resentment toward Sawchuk and his imitators for how they appropriated her image; the only note of regret she expressed was that she wasn’t better compensated. In her view, the photograph is an immense accomplishment that just happened to take on a life of its own. “I’m really proud of that picture,” she said.
  - pseudalopex 4y ago
    “I retired from modelling a long time ago. It’s time I retired from tech, too. We can make a simple change today that creates a lasting change for tomorrow. Let’s commit to losing me.”[1] Being proud of her work doesn't mean she thinks people should have to see it in their work. [1] https://www.thedrum.com/news/2019/11/19/gender-equality-ad-calls-time-playboy-model-lena-image-led-jpeg-invention https://www.thedrum.com/news/2019/11/19/gender-equality-ad-c...
4y ago

Findecanor 4y ago

... And here I had tracked down her address and was about to mail her a print-out, with a request to ask her to sign it. I had been planning to display it in a glass cabinet next to my Melitta teapot and Luxo jr lamp and ball. (and if anyone has a lead on a terracotta rabbit, please let me know ;)