5 ms·

If you want a cautionary tale, here it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3134322 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3134322 The coffeeshop fallacy (2

If you want a cautionary tale, here it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3134322 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3134322 The coffeeshop fallacy (2011) It‘s easy to get blinded by how incredibly privileged the tech bubble is and have had a better experience so far just trying to find a great non-toxic spot in there. YMMV, good luck!

synu 4y ago
The original article seems to be down, here's an archived version of it: https://web.archive.org/web/20120529125543/http://thestartuptoolkit.com/blog/2011/10/the_coffeeshop_fallacy https://web.archive.org/web/20120529125543/http://thestartup...
causi 4y ago
Especially if you've done it your whole professional life. The type of people who see a major tech company charging for lunches in the company cafeteria and then write articles about them trying to starve their employees would curl up and die the first time a customer screamed at them because their pizza had black olives on 60% of it instead of half.
- benjaminwootton 4y ago
  I’m not proud of it but I really hate black olives and really wanted that extra 10% of pizza.
  - causi 4y ago
    They do it every time, don't they? If my brother and I get a single pizza I know he's getting two thirds of it because his black olives are going to be all over the place and they taste like poison.
- Pigalowda 4y ago
  You guys don’t have to pay for your lunches? That’s pretty cool
- KyeRussell 4y ago
  I work in tech, but not for a big tech company or a hip funded startup, and this weird “unionist language bastardised by the developer on $300k/yr not getting his (yes, his) butter chicken paid for” stuff is just endlessly cringey to me. Whilst I wouldn’t be seen dead working in a place like that, y’all really don’t know how good you’ve got it.
  - SavageBeast 4y ago
    YUP! Came here looking to see if anyone called this out and you did. If you didn't I was going to. I don't love working in tech the way I used to but I do still love cashing those paychecks! You can do what you love sure... or you can make the money you want. Almost nobody can do both. As for me - I know theres bullshit every where you go and all jobs have sucky parts and I prefer this devil because I in fact do get paid enough to put up with this shit. How about compartmentalizing your job and being happy after putting in 8h of work? Also, reading HN kinda bums me out on tech too at times. The Instagram Effect where you feel like everyone besides you is doing something cooler than fixing bugs in the CRUD application your company sells.
globular-toast 4y ago
This is why it's so important to mix with people from outside of your bubble. HN has some of the worst examples of people who don't know what they have. The discussions around salary are particularly amusing. I'm lucky because my partner is a nurse so I never forget how easy my job is. I also grew up in a poor family and I haven't forgotten what that was like. Honestly, if people would go and spend a long time in a country like India where people actually have it tough I'm sure they'd be a LOT happier.
- synu 4y ago
  For me it's not that I don't feel lucky or enjoy my job in a general sense I guess. I just don't want to do the same thing over and over again my whole life. I started programming on a Commodore at like 6 or 7 years old and have basically never stopped now that I'm in my 40s.
  - kraquepype 4y ago
    Same here, my first programming was done on an Aquarius at around 8yo. The keyboard it had was awful, but I got to learn some BASIC. IT has been a huge part of my life since. While thankful for that path and what it has afforded my family, I've found it difficult lately to find meaning in it.
  - globular-toast 4y ago
    Isn't that what hobbies are for? Changing career seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
  - EMM_386 4y ago
    Same age, same concerns. I was 8 when I started on a PcJr with BASIC. I'm now in my 40s writing everything from Angular to C# APIs to database stored procedures. Honestly, I've had enough and already suffered through one massive burnout that almost cost me my career. I've been looking at what else I can do ... but I have no idea. And that scares me. I can't see myself doing this in my 60s! And I'm not really the management type.
- 4y ago
jodrellblank 4y ago
See also Venkatesh Rao's blog post on The Locust Economy[1]: > "To take coffee shops as an example, an unending supply of idealistic wannabe cafe owners enters the sector every year, operates at a loss for a few years, and exits. The result is that even under normal business conditions, without swarming locust consumers, this is a loss-making business with an extinction rate of around 90% at the 5 year point in the US. Starbucks has the scale to be profitable and resilient. Locust coffee drinkers happily drink the excellent, loss-making coffee from small, local Jeffersonian coffee shops and callously retreat to Starbucks or DIY homebrew if the prices go up. Starbucks survives, coffee drinking grasshoppers survive, small coffee shops go in and out of business." ("Locust coffee drinkers" is analogy not insult). [1] https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2013/04/03/the-locust-economy/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2013/04/03/the-locust-economy/
opportune 4y ago
Agreed completely. As soul sucking as corporate software can be, we are very fortunate to be able to earn a great living for doing something (often) mentally stimulating and physically easy. I’m sure many a barista fantasy has been crushed the first time having to deal with an unruly or argumentative customer, clean diarrhea off the bathroom walls, etc. Yeah, you have less to worry about once your shift is over, but your shift might really suck. In our culture it sounds cringe/like bragging to make these kinds of comparisons punching down (to which I retort that the “back to blue collar” fantasy started it) but at this point in my life I don’t think I’ll ever have to put up with crap like that for money in the future, and I don’t plan to. Why would I do that?? We get paid several multiples just to tell computers to send little packets of data formatted just so from here to there. All you need to do to be happy is what you’d be doing at your barista job anyway - stop giving a crap about your job after regular working hours, and stop trying to find an existential purpose in repetitive, draining tasks. Once you can do that, you reap all the benefits of higher pay with less bullshit

synu 4y ago

The original article seems to be down, here's an archived version of it: https://web.archive.org/web/20120529125543/http://thestartuptoolkit.com/blog/2011/10/the_coffeeshop_fallacy https://web.archive.org/web/20120529125543/http://thestartup...

causi 4y ago

Especially if you've done it your whole professional life. The type of people who see a major tech company charging for lunches in the company cafeteria and then write articles about them trying to starve their employees would curl up and die the first time a customer screamed at them because their pizza had black olives on 60% of it instead of half.

benjaminwootton 4y ago
I’m not proud of it but I really hate black olives and really wanted that extra 10% of pizza.
- causi 4y ago
  They do it every time, don't they? If my brother and I get a single pizza I know he's getting two thirds of it because his black olives are going to be all over the place and they taste like poison.
Pigalowda 4y ago
You guys don’t have to pay for your lunches? That’s pretty cool
KyeRussell 4y ago
I work in tech, but not for a big tech company or a hip funded startup, and this weird “unionist language bastardised by the developer on $300k/yr not getting his (yes, his) butter chicken paid for” stuff is just endlessly cringey to me. Whilst I wouldn’t be seen dead working in a place like that, y’all really don’t know how good you’ve got it.
- SavageBeast 4y ago
  YUP! Came here looking to see if anyone called this out and you did. If you didn't I was going to. I don't love working in tech the way I used to but I do still love cashing those paychecks! You can do what you love sure... or you can make the money you want. Almost nobody can do both. As for me - I know theres bullshit every where you go and all jobs have sucky parts and I prefer this devil because I in fact do get paid enough to put up with this shit. How about compartmentalizing your job and being happy after putting in 8h of work? Also, reading HN kinda bums me out on tech too at times. The Instagram Effect where you feel like everyone besides you is doing something cooler than fixing bugs in the CRUD application your company sells.

globular-toast 4y ago

This is why it's so important to mix with people from outside of your bubble. HN has some of the worst examples of people who don't know what they have. The discussions around salary are particularly amusing. I'm lucky because my partner is a nurse so I never forget how easy my job is. I also grew up in a poor family and I haven't forgotten what that was like. Honestly, if people would go and spend a long time in a country like India where people actually have it tough I'm sure they'd be a LOT happier.

synu 4y ago
For me it's not that I don't feel lucky or enjoy my job in a general sense I guess. I just don't want to do the same thing over and over again my whole life. I started programming on a Commodore at like 6 or 7 years old and have basically never stopped now that I'm in my 40s.
- kraquepype 4y ago
  Same here, my first programming was done on an Aquarius at around 8yo. The keyboard it had was awful, but I got to learn some BASIC. IT has been a huge part of my life since. While thankful for that path and what it has afforded my family, I've found it difficult lately to find meaning in it.
- globular-toast 4y ago
  Isn't that what hobbies are for? Changing career seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
- EMM_386 4y ago
  Same age, same concerns. I was 8 when I started on a PcJr with BASIC. I'm now in my 40s writing everything from Angular to C# APIs to database stored procedures. Honestly, I've had enough and already suffered through one massive burnout that almost cost me my career. I've been looking at what else I can do ... but I have no idea. And that scares me. I can't see myself doing this in my 60s! And I'm not really the management type.
4y ago

jodrellblank 4y ago

See also Venkatesh Rao's blog post on The Locust Economy[1]: > "To take coffee shops as an example, an unending supply of idealistic wannabe cafe owners enters the sector every year, operates at a loss for a few years, and exits. The result is that even under normal business conditions, without swarming locust consumers, this is a loss-making business with an extinction rate of around 90% at the 5 year point in the US. Starbucks has the scale to be profitable and resilient. Locust coffee drinkers happily drink the excellent, loss-making coffee from small, local Jeffersonian coffee shops and callously retreat to Starbucks or DIY homebrew if the prices go up. Starbucks survives, coffee drinking grasshoppers survive, small coffee shops go in and out of business." ("Locust coffee drinkers" is analogy not insult). [1] https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2013/04/03/the-locust-economy/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2013/04/03/the-locust-economy/

opportune 4y ago

Agreed completely. As soul sucking as corporate software can be, we are very fortunate to be able to earn a great living for doing something (often) mentally stimulating and physically easy. I’m sure many a barista fantasy has been crushed the first time having to deal with an unruly or argumentative customer, clean diarrhea off the bathroom walls, etc. Yeah, you have less to worry about once your shift is over, but your shift might really suck. In our culture it sounds cringe/like bragging to make these kinds of comparisons punching down (to which I retort that the “back to blue collar” fantasy started it) but at this point in my life I don’t think I’ll ever have to put up with crap like that for money in the future, and I don’t plan to. Why would I do that?? We get paid several multiples just to tell computers to send little packets of data formatted just so from here to there. All you need to do to be happy is what you’d be doing at your barista job anyway - stop giving a crap about your job after regular working hours, and stop trying to find an existential purpose in repetitive, draining tasks. Once you can do that, you reap all the benefits of higher pay with less bullshit