6 ms·

I've just done a back-of-the-envelope calculation about fuel costs, and the extra food you have to eat if you are cycling vs the fuel cost for the car for the s

I've just done a back-of-the-envelope calculation about fuel costs, and the extra food you have to eat if you are cycling vs the fuel cost for the car for the same distance is in the same ballpark. So if we also assume that during the lifetime of the vehicle the cost of fuel you'll burn will be in the same ballpark as the cost of the vehicle, then the total cost of riding the bike will only be around 50% of using a car.

pharmakom 4y ago
You should still need to exercise if you drive.
matsemann 4y ago
How are you calculating that? Normally, one assume about 24% efficiency in human pedaling, so that 1kJ of energy going forward = 1 kcal consumed. Now, fuel cost is anyways a small part of owning a car. My 1k bike + food has lasted me years, while that's less than a newer car loses in value each month.
- newaccount74 4y ago
  https://biketips.com/calories-burned-biking/ https://biketips.com/calories-burned-biking/ says I burn ~600kcal to ride 20km. 600kcal is ~200g of bread + 20g of butter. Bread costs about 5€/kg, butter costs 2€ / 250g so 600kcal is roughly 1,25€. My car uses about 6l gasoline per 100km, current price is ~1,60€ per liter, so 20km need 1,90€ of gasoline. So if I just eat cheap food riding a bike is cheaper. If I eat at McDonalds, then 600kcal is a hamburger with medium fries, which costs ~4,50€. Then taking the car is cheaper. This is quite surprising!
  - johannes1234321 4y ago
    Even when just sitting around your body requires energy.
    - newaccount74 4y ago
      I'm pretty sure the 600kcal are what my body burns on top of the base metabolic rate, not the total amount burned in an hour.
  - matsemann 4y ago
    What if the added calorie need comes from rapeseed oil or something really cheap? :D But I think there's some factors at play here. One is that if I didn't commute to work, I would have to work out some other way to get my daily movement in. So it's not necessarily that I eat more just to bike. I just use that energy to move myself to work instead of on a treadmill going no where. Another interesting factor is what about electrical bikes? The amount of kWh needed to move a small person vs multiple tonnes of car should make it a huge win.
  - uoaei 4y ago
    The costs of sitting idly every time you travel, compared to doing some low-impact cardio over the same distance, for trips shorter than about 3 miles, definitely adds up over the years. The results looks absurd because the math is ignoring a lot of real-world considerations.
    - kiliantics 4y ago
      There's really no question. Cost of bike maintenance vs car maintenance. Societal cost of road wear due to a huge car vs a tiny bike. Burden on healthcare system, regulation and enforcement for dangerous driving habits. We all pay so much for cars, even when not driving one, when usually a bicycle is perfectly sufficient.
      - faeyanpiraat 4y ago
        You are also 17× more likely to pay the ultimate price if you travel the exact same amount on a bicycle (according to UK stats). Edit: Source: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1124190/ras0203.ods https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
        uoaei 4y ago
        Are you making a point? What is it?
        faeyanpiraat 4y ago
        The comment I replied to makes the point that bikes are better "no question" from the cost perspective since car maintenance is obviously more expensive. It is a more complex equation than that.. Probably the hardest variable to quantify is the risk of injury/death. While I agree it could be better if everyone used bikes, but in the current reality if I choose to ride my bycicle, I'm going to share the road with 2000Kg metal boxes which are sometimes driven by distracted drivers, and I'm not willing to take that risk. So even if I combine all the costs associated with both options, and bikes are cheaper objectively, it will still be more expensive for me.
  - woodruffw 4y ago
    If we do this kind of calculus, it’s probably worth including the expected health costs of not exercising. Especially if your normal meal is a hamburger at McDonalds :-)
  - uxp100 4y ago
    I think bicycle calorie burn calculators are basically just nonsense. 600 calories is a ton to burn for a relatively short leisurely ride. Maybe 5x too much. I have an older garmin that has told me I have burned 9000 calories in a weekend, and uh, I didn’t. No evidence for that, but I simply don’t believe it. Bicycle tourists would have to have wild food intake to sustain that for weeks.
    - newaccount74 4y ago
      I agree 600kcal is on the high side, but I don't think it's as far off as you think. Most estimates I've seen are between 300-500kcal per hour, depending on effort. It depends a lot on the bike and on the route. On a road bike going down a straight, flat road wearing lycra 20km/h is zero effort. On a city bike loaded with groceries going through urban environment with a bunch of traffic lights 20km/h average is quite an effort.
adrianN 4y ago
2000kcal of noodles costs like one Euro and fuels you for like five hours of cycling, 100km open road maybe. An average car burns 7l or 12€ of gas. But if you're concerned about calories, just buy an ebike.

pharmakom 4y ago

You should still need to exercise if you drive.

matsemann 4y ago

How are you calculating that? Normally, one assume about 24% efficiency in human pedaling, so that 1kJ of energy going forward = 1 kcal consumed. Now, fuel cost is anyways a small part of owning a car. My 1k bike + food has lasted me years, while that's less than a newer car loses in value each month.

newaccount74 4y ago
https://biketips.com/calories-burned-biking/ https://biketips.com/calories-burned-biking/ says I burn ~600kcal to ride 20km. 600kcal is ~200g of bread + 20g of butter. Bread costs about 5€/kg, butter costs 2€ / 250g so 600kcal is roughly 1,25€. My car uses about 6l gasoline per 100km, current price is ~1,60€ per liter, so 20km need 1,90€ of gasoline. So if I just eat cheap food riding a bike is cheaper. If I eat at McDonalds, then 600kcal is a hamburger with medium fries, which costs ~4,50€. Then taking the car is cheaper. This is quite surprising!
- johannes1234321 4y ago
  Even when just sitting around your body requires energy.
  - newaccount74 4y ago
    I'm pretty sure the 600kcal are what my body burns on top of the base metabolic rate, not the total amount burned in an hour.
- matsemann 4y ago
  What if the added calorie need comes from rapeseed oil or something really cheap? :D But I think there's some factors at play here. One is that if I didn't commute to work, I would have to work out some other way to get my daily movement in. So it's not necessarily that I eat more just to bike. I just use that energy to move myself to work instead of on a treadmill going no where. Another interesting factor is what about electrical bikes? The amount of kWh needed to move a small person vs multiple tonnes of car should make it a huge win.
- uoaei 4y ago
  The costs of sitting idly every time you travel, compared to doing some low-impact cardio over the same distance, for trips shorter than about 3 miles, definitely adds up over the years. The results looks absurd because the math is ignoring a lot of real-world considerations.
  - kiliantics 4y ago
    There's really no question. Cost of bike maintenance vs car maintenance. Societal cost of road wear due to a huge car vs a tiny bike. Burden on healthcare system, regulation and enforcement for dangerous driving habits. We all pay so much for cars, even when not driving one, when usually a bicycle is perfectly sufficient.
    - faeyanpiraat 4y ago
      You are also 17× more likely to pay the ultimate price if you travel the exact same amount on a bicycle (according to UK stats). Edit: Source: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1124190/ras0203.ods https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
      - uoaei 4y ago
        Are you making a point? What is it?
        faeyanpiraat 4y ago
        The comment I replied to makes the point that bikes are better "no question" from the cost perspective since car maintenance is obviously more expensive. It is a more complex equation than that.. Probably the hardest variable to quantify is the risk of injury/death. While I agree it could be better if everyone used bikes, but in the current reality if I choose to ride my bycicle, I'm going to share the road with 2000Kg metal boxes which are sometimes driven by distracted drivers, and I'm not willing to take that risk. So even if I combine all the costs associated with both options, and bikes are cheaper objectively, it will still be more expensive for me.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  If we do this kind of calculus, it’s probably worth including the expected health costs of not exercising. Especially if your normal meal is a hamburger at McDonalds :-)
- uxp100 4y ago
  I think bicycle calorie burn calculators are basically just nonsense. 600 calories is a ton to burn for a relatively short leisurely ride. Maybe 5x too much. I have an older garmin that has told me I have burned 9000 calories in a weekend, and uh, I didn’t. No evidence for that, but I simply don’t believe it. Bicycle tourists would have to have wild food intake to sustain that for weeks.
  - newaccount74 4y ago
    I agree 600kcal is on the high side, but I don't think it's as far off as you think. Most estimates I've seen are between 300-500kcal per hour, depending on effort. It depends a lot on the bike and on the route. On a road bike going down a straight, flat road wearing lycra 20km/h is zero effort. On a city bike loaded with groceries going through urban environment with a bunch of traffic lights 20km/h average is quite an effort.

adrianN 4y ago

2000kcal of noodles costs like one Euro and fuels you for like five hours of cycling, 100km open road maybe. An average car burns 7l or 12€ of gas. But if you're concerned about calories, just buy an ebike.