5 ms·

At €70 a pop, my tyres get rotated front to back, as required. Back wears out much faster.

adrianN 4y ago
70€ for 15k kilometers or so is really cheap. It's incredible how cheap cycling is per kilometer. At least an order of magnitude cheaper than driving.
- wiredfool 4y ago
  15K is an overestimate for most bike tires. It might be accurate for ultra hard commuter ones, but my experience is more like 2k miles for a rear (at 700x25c, single racing bike) and 5k for the front. At that point, the rear is a pretty square shape, with thin tread in the center, and starts to have some interesting handling issues. Wider, more supple tires might do better than that, the 26x2.2 rear on my tandem is 2k miles in, and probably has another 50% of its life left. Tandems are kind of noted for eating tires due to the loads on them.
  - ljf 4y ago
    I was about to agree then I did my own maths. I used to use GatorSkins - as they are perfect for London cycling. I used to commute 29 miles a day, 5 days a week, plus complete a 60ish mile ride on weekends - so times that by 47 weeks (5 weeks leave where I wasn't commuting) gives 9,635 miles. My gatorskins easily lasted a year, usually more - in fact I still have one of my London tires on my good bike, 7 years later (as the front tire) (I no longer cycle commute and only ride for leisure now.) So I think those miles really are possible on a good tire. I used to use cheapo tires but ended up changing them 3 or 4 times a year and burning through inner-tubes.
  - _Wintermute 4y ago
    2k miles is only 2 months for someone doing decent mileage, but even pros don't train on thin racing tyres.
    - wiredfool 4y ago
      The 2k figure was from a Michelin lithion 2, which was a decent for the price cheap (15 eur) 700x25 tire. It’s not an event tire. Mainly chosen for its relatively price and predictable performance (1 compound). The tandem and wider tires are not the cheap ones though, they’re Rene Hearse, roughly 90eur or so. I’d say they’re worth it, but they are about the same price as my last car tires.
  - adrianN 4y ago
    My Schwalbe Marathon Plus last around 20k. That's about five years for me.
- faeyanpiraat 4y ago
  I've just done a back-of-the-envelope calculation about fuel costs, and the extra food you have to eat if you are cycling vs the fuel cost for the car for the same distance is in the same ballpark. So if we also assume that during the lifetime of the vehicle the cost of fuel you'll burn will be in the same ballpark as the cost of the vehicle, then the total cost of riding the bike will only be around 50% of using a car.
  - pharmakom 4y ago
    You should still need to exercise if you drive.
  - matsemann 4y ago
    How are you calculating that? Normally, one assume about 24% efficiency in human pedaling, so that 1kJ of energy going forward = 1 kcal consumed. Now, fuel cost is anyways a small part of owning a car. My 1k bike + food has lasted me years, while that's less than a newer car loses in value each month.
    - newaccount74 4y ago
      https://biketips.com/calories-burned-biking/ https://biketips.com/calories-burned-biking/ says I burn ~600kcal to ride 20km. 600kcal is ~200g of bread + 20g of butter. Bread costs about 5€/kg, butter costs 2€ / 250g so 600kcal is roughly 1,25€. My car uses about 6l gasoline per 100km, current price is ~1,60€ per liter, so 20km need 1,90€ of gasoline. So if I just eat cheap food riding a bike is cheaper. If I eat at McDonalds, then 600kcal is a hamburger with medium fries, which costs ~4,50€. Then taking the car is cheaper. This is quite surprising!
      - johannes1234321 4y ago
        Even when just sitting around your body requires energy.
        newaccount74 4y ago
- uoaei 4y ago
  And if you can do your own maintenance, and buy used frames and parts, you can probably say 2 OoM difference. You'd spend more on the calories that fuel your commute than on the bike and accessories.
fluoridation 4y ago
You're not actually saving anything in the long term, though. Let's say you start with brand new tires on both wheels. Let's further suppose that you completely wear out your rear tire in 1 year and your front tire in 4 years. If on the first anniversary you rotate and place the new tire in front, you'll need to repeat the procedure after 9 months, and then every 9 months after that. On the 4th anniversary you'll have bought 5 tires: on the 12th, 21st, 30th, 39th, and 48th months. If you simply replace each tire as it wears out without any rotation, on the 4th year you'll have bought 5 tires, 1 to replace the front tire once and 4 to replace the rear tire 4 times.
- matsemann 4y ago
  True. What you do have is a more consistent / good front tire, which is important for handling curves in wet weather. So still worth doing, instead of riding with a front tire on its last 20% of life.
  - fluoridation 4y ago
    IME as long as the tire is not flat there's no difference in handling between a new and a worn front tire, at least on asphalt.
relwin 4y ago
Road tires wear unevenly on the sides due to crowned streets. You should also flip rotating direction, assuming unidirectional tires.

70€ for 15k kilometers or so is really cheap. It's incredible how cheap cycling is per kilometer. At least an order of magnitude cheaper than driving.

wiredfool 4y ago
15K is an overestimate for most bike tires. It might be accurate for ultra hard commuter ones, but my experience is more like 2k miles for a rear (at 700x25c, single racing bike) and 5k for the front. At that point, the rear is a pretty square shape, with thin tread in the center, and starts to have some interesting handling issues. Wider, more supple tires might do better than that, the 26x2.2 rear on my tandem is 2k miles in, and probably has another 50% of its life left. Tandems are kind of noted for eating tires due to the loads on them.
- ljf 4y ago
  I was about to agree then I did my own maths. I used to use GatorSkins - as they are perfect for London cycling. I used to commute 29 miles a day, 5 days a week, plus complete a 60ish mile ride on weekends - so times that by 47 weeks (5 weeks leave where I wasn't commuting) gives 9,635 miles. My gatorskins easily lasted a year, usually more - in fact I still have one of my London tires on my good bike, 7 years later (as the front tire) (I no longer cycle commute and only ride for leisure now.) So I think those miles really are possible on a good tire. I used to use cheapo tires but ended up changing them 3 or 4 times a year and burning through inner-tubes.
- _Wintermute 4y ago
  2k miles is only 2 months for someone doing decent mileage, but even pros don't train on thin racing tyres.
  - wiredfool 4y ago
    The 2k figure was from a Michelin lithion 2, which was a decent for the price cheap (15 eur) 700x25 tire. It’s not an event tire. Mainly chosen for its relatively price and predictable performance (1 compound). The tandem and wider tires are not the cheap ones though, they’re Rene Hearse, roughly 90eur or so. I’d say they’re worth it, but they are about the same price as my last car tires.
- adrianN 4y ago
  My Schwalbe Marathon Plus last around 20k. That's about five years for me.
faeyanpiraat 4y ago
I've just done a back-of-the-envelope calculation about fuel costs, and the extra food you have to eat if you are cycling vs the fuel cost for the car for the same distance is in the same ballpark. So if we also assume that during the lifetime of the vehicle the cost of fuel you'll burn will be in the same ballpark as the cost of the vehicle, then the total cost of riding the bike will only be around 50% of using a car.
- pharmakom 4y ago
  You should still need to exercise if you drive.
- matsemann 4y ago
  How are you calculating that? Normally, one assume about 24% efficiency in human pedaling, so that 1kJ of energy going forward = 1 kcal consumed. Now, fuel cost is anyways a small part of owning a car. My 1k bike + food has lasted me years, while that's less than a newer car loses in value each month.
  - newaccount74 4y ago
    https://biketips.com/calories-burned-biking/ https://biketips.com/calories-burned-biking/ says I burn ~600kcal to ride 20km. 600kcal is ~200g of bread + 20g of butter. Bread costs about 5€/kg, butter costs 2€ / 250g so 600kcal is roughly 1,25€. My car uses about 6l gasoline per 100km, current price is ~1,60€ per liter, so 20km need 1,90€ of gasoline. So if I just eat cheap food riding a bike is cheaper. If I eat at McDonalds, then 600kcal is a hamburger with medium fries, which costs ~4,50€. Then taking the car is cheaper. This is quite surprising!
    - johannes1234321 4y ago
      Even when just sitting around your body requires energy.
      - newaccount74 4y ago
uoaei 4y ago
And if you can do your own maintenance, and buy used frames and parts, you can probably say 2 OoM difference. You'd spend more on the calories that fuel your commute than on the bike and accessories.

fluoridation 4y ago

You're not actually saving anything in the long term, though. Let's say you start with brand new tires on both wheels. Let's further suppose that you completely wear out your rear tire in 1 year and your front tire in 4 years. If on the first anniversary you rotate and place the new tire in front, you'll need to repeat the procedure after 9 months, and then every 9 months after that. On the 4th anniversary you'll have bought 5 tires: on the 12th, 21st, 30th, 39th, and 48th months. If you simply replace each tire as it wears out without any rotation, on the 4th year you'll have bought 5 tires, 1 to replace the front tire once and 4 to replace the rear tire 4 times.

matsemann 4y ago
True. What you do have is a more consistent / good front tire, which is important for handling curves in wet weather. So still worth doing, instead of riding with a front tire on its last 20% of life.
- fluoridation 4y ago
  IME as long as the tire is not flat there's no difference in handling between a new and a worn front tire, at least on asphalt.

relwin 4y ago

Road tires wear unevenly on the sides due to crowned streets. You should also flip rotating direction, assuming unidirectional tires.