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> 1. You don’t get to decide if another human’s feelings are valid or not This is bullshit and one of the worse aspect of modern / woke culture. Some people h

> 1. You don’t get to decide if another human’s feelings are valid or not This is bullshit and one of the worse aspect of modern / woke culture. Some people have bullshit feelings because they havent had a proper education on things such as relationships, money, sex.. and the DIRECT CONSEQUENCE of that its that they almost always are at some point getting ripped off by someone who abuse this lack of education. This is true for casino business, Andrew tate / only fans webcam businesszs who abuse simps, or in some cases compagnies who tell their employeed that they are "family". Or Replika. Screw that. If you really want to make the world a better place you somethines have to hurt peoples feeling and give them better education to help them get to a better place.

PaulRobinson 4y ago
I can’t tell you if your feelings are valid or not, and vice versa. What we can do is understand why those feelings exist, discuss that, and perhaps help each other gain new perspectives. Sometimes that process is difficult and painful. It always takes work. It’s only going to be done by caring about someone else enough to do that work. Often you won’t care enough. That’s my point. You actually agree with me if you sit and think a moment. It’s just that you think telling somebody their feelings are “wrong”, is the effective fix and the work, and I’m saying that’s never, ever going to work: it causes shame and guilt and makes people double down. Do the work properly if you care, or just shut up and stop causing even more shitty feelings.
- bravura 4y ago
  > 1. You don’t get to decide if another human’s feelings are valid or not. > I can’t tell you if your feelings are valid or not, and vice versa. > Do the work properly if you care, or just shut up and stop causing even more shitty feelings. Well that escalated quickly. And also walked you straight into the paradox of tolerance.
- davidguetta 4y ago
  I don't even understand your point. Of course I don't plan on going to someone who have some feelings and say "hey you suck loser" or try to shame him somehow. But if tommorow some friend say to me that he's "in love" with a twitch streamer and plan to give his life savings to them because "such an amazing person" you won't have me entertain the idea his feelings are "valid". I CAN tell they are not valid and he's getting fucked over. I'll probably approach the situation cautiously, and reasonably fall back to letting him do his own mistakes if he doesn't listen to me, but I'll have a talk with him from a position where I do evaluate that he's absolutely misguided.
  - Last5Digits 4y ago
    Great! Then why are you arguing with someone that called out this exact behavior in the first comment of this thread? Said comment called people who engaged with this bot "sad fuckers" and "stratospheric level of socially inept". What benefit do you think this comment has? If some of these people see said comment, do you think that they will be persuaded by it? I think they would be rather insulted, and promptly ignore not just this thread, but any person who tries to reason them out of their behavior. I've seen many people who are, in principle, ready to accept that they need to change, but who have have been talked down to and insulted, and are now scared of proving those who insulted them right. I reject the idea that someone who expresses themselves as OP has does so out of a desire to help people. I would rather guess that OP did it to feel a sense of superiority over the people he is insulting, because I cannot see any other reason for him choosing his words as he did. And by "valid", people often mean to say that one should not be ashamed of ones emotions, but instead accept them and then use higher reasoning to determine whether or not said emotions point in a beneficial direction. The OPs comment will cause that exact shame, which will hinder reasoning and betterment, not inspire it. As you yourself said, the important part is to reason about emotions, not to suppress them.
    - lostmsu 4y ago
      > I think they would be rather insulted, and promptly ignore not just this thread, but any person who tries to reason them out of their behavior. E.g. they would behave like sad stratospherically socially inept stupid fuckers?
      - Last5Digits 4y ago
        By that logic, pretty much 99% of all humans would be "sad stratospherically socially inept stupid fuckers". People don't like being insulted or demeaned, and I would wager a guess that you would be pretty reluctant to accept even the best of advice if it was preceded by a tirade of petty insults. If you failed to realize this simple rule of social interaction, and you're older than 14, then you probably shouldn't be calling other people socially inept. Glass houses and all that.
lxgr 4y ago
How I see it is that all feelings are valid, from a pragmatical point of view as much as an ethical one – declaring feelings as "bad" is usually not a productive way of effecting change (even if so desired even by the person experiencing them). That said, feelings can absolutely be situationally inappropriate, which can cause great problems for both the person experiencing them and/or third parties (if followed by actions).
- davidguetta 4y ago
  I just dont see the difference. Why would a feeling which is 'situationally inappropriate' be "valid" ? And why would you want to absolutely defend that it should be ? My point is that feelings are sometimes misguided and reason should be used to guide them. Sometimes it's the opposite: reason and logical arguments tells you something but your "gut feeling" tells you HARD NO and you should probably follow that gut feelings. Sometimes it's not an easy process to know the balance, other times it's just lack of experience / education like in cases it've cited and some more experienced person can help you if they have lived something similar. But completely forbidding yourself to assess / say, that someone's feeling is misguided makes no sense at all to me and seem to be some ideological bullshit that is really helping absolutely no one on the long term.
tonis2 4y ago
We should just create education camps for those "losers" and then we would have ideal people ? Sounds horrifying, I would maybe send you to an education camp, cause I think you need more education on how people develope. Modern world has just created a lot of broken people, its not always their fault and cant be fixed by just schools.
- davidguetta 4y ago
  "Modern world" is full of broken people PRECISELY because of the lack of education in many domains (spiritual, financial, emotional, sexual) that parents or schools (which is an actual and better name for education camps) should provide. Instead they are left to being raised by watching shitty movies / TV shows, having their ignorance and feelings glorified, and then ... they get more broken later by people who have had better education in their upbringing and take advantage of them. If you want less broken people you need to advocate for strong (but compassionate) and extensive education when they are young. Make them go through difficult (but teaching) situations as you can instead of doing nothing, force them to read instructive books instead of playing stupid smartphone games, make them be creators instead of consumers. The hard way is really the easy way on the long term. And the easy way break people on the long term
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  We have those camps. They're called Public Education and run for approx. 12 years. We don't fund education these days, but in theory, yes, they are there to help build ideal people. That isn't just math or science, that's things like emotional maturity, empathy, and dealing with others. > Modern world has just created a lot of broken people, its not always their fault and cant be fixed by just schools. I don't disagree. That's what mental hospitals and prisons are for, or therapists and community groups. But if you think the modern world is creating heaps of broken people, you should see what the old world created.

PaulRobinson 4y ago

I can’t tell you if your feelings are valid or not, and vice versa. What we can do is understand why those feelings exist, discuss that, and perhaps help each other gain new perspectives. Sometimes that process is difficult and painful. It always takes work. It’s only going to be done by caring about someone else enough to do that work. Often you won’t care enough. That’s my point. You actually agree with me if you sit and think a moment. It’s just that you think telling somebody their feelings are “wrong”, is the effective fix and the work, and I’m saying that’s never, ever going to work: it causes shame and guilt and makes people double down. Do the work properly if you care, or just shut up and stop causing even more shitty feelings.

bravura 4y ago
> 1. You don’t get to decide if another human’s feelings are valid or not. > I can’t tell you if your feelings are valid or not, and vice versa. > Do the work properly if you care, or just shut up and stop causing even more shitty feelings. Well that escalated quickly. And also walked you straight into the paradox of tolerance.
davidguetta 4y ago
I don't even understand your point. Of course I don't plan on going to someone who have some feelings and say "hey you suck loser" or try to shame him somehow. But if tommorow some friend say to me that he's "in love" with a twitch streamer and plan to give his life savings to them because "such an amazing person" you won't have me entertain the idea his feelings are "valid". I CAN tell they are not valid and he's getting fucked over. I'll probably approach the situation cautiously, and reasonably fall back to letting him do his own mistakes if he doesn't listen to me, but I'll have a talk with him from a position where I do evaluate that he's absolutely misguided.
- Last5Digits 4y ago
  Great! Then why are you arguing with someone that called out this exact behavior in the first comment of this thread? Said comment called people who engaged with this bot "sad fuckers" and "stratospheric level of socially inept". What benefit do you think this comment has? If some of these people see said comment, do you think that they will be persuaded by it? I think they would be rather insulted, and promptly ignore not just this thread, but any person who tries to reason them out of their behavior. I've seen many people who are, in principle, ready to accept that they need to change, but who have have been talked down to and insulted, and are now scared of proving those who insulted them right. I reject the idea that someone who expresses themselves as OP has does so out of a desire to help people. I would rather guess that OP did it to feel a sense of superiority over the people he is insulting, because I cannot see any other reason for him choosing his words as he did. And by "valid", people often mean to say that one should not be ashamed of ones emotions, but instead accept them and then use higher reasoning to determine whether or not said emotions point in a beneficial direction. The OPs comment will cause that exact shame, which will hinder reasoning and betterment, not inspire it. As you yourself said, the important part is to reason about emotions, not to suppress them.
  - lostmsu 4y ago
    > I think they would be rather insulted, and promptly ignore not just this thread, but any person who tries to reason them out of their behavior. E.g. they would behave like sad stratospherically socially inept stupid fuckers?
    - Last5Digits 4y ago
      By that logic, pretty much 99% of all humans would be "sad stratospherically socially inept stupid fuckers". People don't like being insulted or demeaned, and I would wager a guess that you would be pretty reluctant to accept even the best of advice if it was preceded by a tirade of petty insults. If you failed to realize this simple rule of social interaction, and you're older than 14, then you probably shouldn't be calling other people socially inept. Glass houses and all that.

lxgr 4y ago

How I see it is that all feelings are valid, from a pragmatical point of view as much as an ethical one – declaring feelings as "bad" is usually not a productive way of effecting change (even if so desired even by the person experiencing them). That said, feelings can absolutely be situationally inappropriate, which can cause great problems for both the person experiencing them and/or third parties (if followed by actions).

davidguetta 4y ago
I just dont see the difference. Why would a feeling which is 'situationally inappropriate' be "valid" ? And why would you want to absolutely defend that it should be ? My point is that feelings are sometimes misguided and reason should be used to guide them. Sometimes it's the opposite: reason and logical arguments tells you something but your "gut feeling" tells you HARD NO and you should probably follow that gut feelings. Sometimes it's not an easy process to know the balance, other times it's just lack of experience / education like in cases it've cited and some more experienced person can help you if they have lived something similar. But completely forbidding yourself to assess / say, that someone's feeling is misguided makes no sense at all to me and seem to be some ideological bullshit that is really helping absolutely no one on the long term.

tonis2 4y ago

We should just create education camps for those "losers" and then we would have ideal people ? Sounds horrifying, I would maybe send you to an education camp, cause I think you need more education on how people develope. Modern world has just created a lot of broken people, its not always their fault and cant be fixed by just schools.

davidguetta 4y ago
"Modern world" is full of broken people PRECISELY because of the lack of education in many domains (spiritual, financial, emotional, sexual) that parents or schools (which is an actual and better name for education camps) should provide. Instead they are left to being raised by watching shitty movies / TV shows, having their ignorance and feelings glorified, and then ... they get more broken later by people who have had better education in their upbringing and take advantage of them. If you want less broken people you need to advocate for strong (but compassionate) and extensive education when they are young. Make them go through difficult (but teaching) situations as you can instead of doing nothing, force them to read instructive books instead of playing stupid smartphone games, make them be creators instead of consumers. The hard way is really the easy way on the long term. And the easy way break people on the long term
red-iron-pine 4y ago
We have those camps. They're called Public Education and run for approx. 12 years. We don't fund education these days, but in theory, yes, they are there to help build ideal people. That isn't just math or science, that's things like emotional maturity, empathy, and dealing with others. > Modern world has just created a lot of broken people, its not always their fault and cant be fixed by just schools. I don't disagree. That's what mental hospitals and prisons are for, or therapists and community groups. But if you think the modern world is creating heaps of broken people, you should see what the old world created.