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US is a war machine, can drum up support to invade any country even if they're lies, and in the last 300 years, it's hard to find a country that has abused more

US is a war machine, can drum up support to invade any country even if they're lies, and in the last 300 years, it's hard to find a country that has abused more human rights. The birth of the US coincided with a genocide of native Americans, wars for more land, slavery of an entire people. And yet, the US actually has allies. After all the crap the US has done, it still has allies. What? Why? Oh, because it's all about economics and power.

Ankaios 4y ago
And yet, the US actually has allies. After all the crap the US has done, it still has allies. What? Why? Oh, because it's all about economics and power. Interesting thesis. At the same time, China has few allies. Does that mean China has a poor economy and little power?
- senttoschool 4y ago
  Interesting thesis. At the same time, China has few allies. Does that mean China has a poor economy and little power? Maybe it's news to you but China has been poor for nearly 150+ years. In the past, China had the highest GDP in the world. But the opium trade, western wars, caused it to become as poor as it did. It's only in the last 10 years or so that China's economy has been big enough to garner more allies. Even so, maybe propaganda has convinced you that China has no allies? For example, 37 countries signed a letter supporting China's anti-domestic terrorism tactics in Xinjiang.
  - EFreethought 4y ago
    It's not news to some of us. Part of that is that the last imperial dynasty to rule China was not Chinese, but ethnically Manchurian. A lot of problems came from that. Granted, that does not make it okay that the West helped carve them up. But a lot of their external issues in the past few centuries have internal root. If the Han and the Manchurians could not get along, how is that the West's fault? WRT "terrorism" in Xinjiang: I think non-Han minorities might have a different opinion than the official Beijing line.
  - Gibbon1 4y ago
    In the early 20th century the US was opposed to European colonialism in China, opposed to the Japanese invasion of China. And opposed to the Communist takeover of China. The US is also opposed to Xi's dictatorship an threats towards Taiwan. And the Uyghur genocide. So China does have a friend in the US. But Xi doesn't.
to11mtm 4y ago
> and in the last 300 years, it's hard to find a country that has abused more human rights. Surely, between: - The Armenian Genocide - The Holocaust - The Holdomor - Pogroms - Apartheid regimes - Purges of the Bourgeoisie - One Child Policy I find it hard to think that the US (With it's many, many fuck-ups) is the only, let alone the -worst- guilty party in the last 100 years. O wait, if we only counted the last 100 years the 'great leap forward' would suddenly look a lot less great... wouldn't it?
- senttoschool 4y ago
  I find it hard to think that the US (With it's many, many fuck-ups) is the only, let alone the -worst- guilty party in the last 100 years. Slavery and native American genocides are pretty bad - as well as the countless countries US has invaded/bombed. But anyways, are we trying to estimate which country has done more bad in the last 300 years? China or US? And are you willing to become more pro-China if we conclude that the US has done more bad?
  - hedora 4y ago
    The US also initiated many famines. For instance, there was one in 2020 that US policy contributed to.
    - klipklop 4y ago
      The US is a net food exporter. What you are saying is propaganda, not fact. The US is the largest food-Aid donator. The US has shipped millions of pounds of food around the world to feed people… for free. We are talking billions a year in spending. https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/1-millionth-ton-american-wheat-relief-yemen/ https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/1-millionth-ton-american-whe...
  - workingdog 4y ago
    >>Slavery and native American genocides are pretty bad Any student of history would understand that China colonizing the north american continent would have been much much worse for Native Americans. There currently are slaves in China right now.
hackerlight 4y ago
You're talking about the past. The US isn't currently carpet bombing Vietnam, it isn't currently allowing slavery. China, currently in 2023, is all the things the above poster says it is. A sabre rattling dictatorship that is intentionally oppressing its minorities. Chinese people are awesome but the Chinese state can go to hell. This isn't to excuse Trump's sinophobia. He can go to hell too.
- senttoschool 4y ago
  Chinese people are awesome but the Chinese state can go to hell. Chinese people support the CCP. Most Chinese citizens are pro-CCP. So if you have a negative view of the CCP, then you should have a negative view of Chinese too. But you're probably wondering why Chinese people support the CCP? It's because the CCP improved the lives of 1.4 billion people and is still improving their lives. GDP per capita went from $317 in 1990 to $12,000+ in 2022. And why would they overthrow the CCP now? Makes no sense. But if the CCP needs to be overthrown and is no longer working for Chinese people, they will overthrow it. Chinese people have been overthrowing governments for millenniums.
  - hackerlight 4y ago
    > So if you have a negative view of the CCP, then you should have a negative view of Chinese too. I disagree with the (admittedly large) subset of Chinese people who support the CCP, but me having a negative view of them as people doesn't follow from that. > It's because the CCP improved the lives of 1.4 billion people and is still improving their lives. GDP per capita went from $317 in 1990 to $12,000+ in 2022. And why would they overthrow the CCP now? I didn't claim that the CCP did nothing good and was all bad. There's clearly far worse alternatives than the CCP. Also, it's not accurate to attribute all of China's current success to the current CCP. A lot of it was the seeds planted thanks to the economic liberalization in the preceding few decades when the CCP was more liberal than it is today. > But if the CCP needs to be overthrown and is no longer working for Chinese people, they will overthrow it. Authoritarian states create mechanisms that make them difficult to overthrow.
    - 4y ago

Ankaios 4y ago

And yet, the US actually has allies. After all the crap the US has done, it still has allies. What? Why? Oh, because it's all about economics and power. Interesting thesis. At the same time, China has few allies. Does that mean China has a poor economy and little power?

senttoschool 4y ago
Interesting thesis. At the same time, China has few allies. Does that mean China has a poor economy and little power? Maybe it's news to you but China has been poor for nearly 150+ years. In the past, China had the highest GDP in the world. But the opium trade, western wars, caused it to become as poor as it did. It's only in the last 10 years or so that China's economy has been big enough to garner more allies. Even so, maybe propaganda has convinced you that China has no allies? For example, 37 countries signed a letter supporting China's anti-domestic terrorism tactics in Xinjiang.
- EFreethought 4y ago
  It's not news to some of us. Part of that is that the last imperial dynasty to rule China was not Chinese, but ethnically Manchurian. A lot of problems came from that. Granted, that does not make it okay that the West helped carve them up. But a lot of their external issues in the past few centuries have internal root. If the Han and the Manchurians could not get along, how is that the West's fault? WRT "terrorism" in Xinjiang: I think non-Han minorities might have a different opinion than the official Beijing line.
- Gibbon1 4y ago
  In the early 20th century the US was opposed to European colonialism in China, opposed to the Japanese invasion of China. And opposed to the Communist takeover of China. The US is also opposed to Xi's dictatorship an threats towards Taiwan. And the Uyghur genocide. So China does have a friend in the US. But Xi doesn't.

to11mtm 4y ago

> and in the last 300 years, it's hard to find a country that has abused more human rights. Surely, between: - The Armenian Genocide - The Holocaust - The Holdomor - Pogroms - Apartheid regimes - Purges of the Bourgeoisie - One Child Policy I find it hard to think that the US (With it's many, many fuck-ups) is the only, let alone the -worst- guilty party in the last 100 years. O wait, if we only counted the last 100 years the 'great leap forward' would suddenly look a lot less great... wouldn't it?

senttoschool 4y ago
I find it hard to think that the US (With it's many, many fuck-ups) is the only, let alone the -worst- guilty party in the last 100 years. Slavery and native American genocides are pretty bad - as well as the countless countries US has invaded/bombed. But anyways, are we trying to estimate which country has done more bad in the last 300 years? China or US? And are you willing to become more pro-China if we conclude that the US has done more bad?
- hedora 4y ago
  The US also initiated many famines. For instance, there was one in 2020 that US policy contributed to.
  - klipklop 4y ago
    The US is a net food exporter. What you are saying is propaganda, not fact. The US is the largest food-Aid donator. The US has shipped millions of pounds of food around the world to feed people… for free. We are talking billions a year in spending. https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/1-millionth-ton-american-wheat-relief-yemen/ https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/1-millionth-ton-american-whe...
- workingdog 4y ago
  >>Slavery and native American genocides are pretty bad Any student of history would understand that China colonizing the north american continent would have been much much worse for Native Americans. There currently are slaves in China right now.

hackerlight 4y ago

You're talking about the past. The US isn't currently carpet bombing Vietnam, it isn't currently allowing slavery. China, currently in 2023, is all the things the above poster says it is. A sabre rattling dictatorship that is intentionally oppressing its minorities. Chinese people are awesome but the Chinese state can go to hell. This isn't to excuse Trump's sinophobia. He can go to hell too.

senttoschool 4y ago
Chinese people are awesome but the Chinese state can go to hell. Chinese people support the CCP. Most Chinese citizens are pro-CCP. So if you have a negative view of the CCP, then you should have a negative view of Chinese too. But you're probably wondering why Chinese people support the CCP? It's because the CCP improved the lives of 1.4 billion people and is still improving their lives. GDP per capita went from $317 in 1990 to $12,000+ in 2022. And why would they overthrow the CCP now? Makes no sense. But if the CCP needs to be overthrown and is no longer working for Chinese people, they will overthrow it. Chinese people have been overthrowing governments for millenniums.
- hackerlight 4y ago
  > So if you have a negative view of the CCP, then you should have a negative view of Chinese too. I disagree with the (admittedly large) subset of Chinese people who support the CCP, but me having a negative view of them as people doesn't follow from that. > It's because the CCP improved the lives of 1.4 billion people and is still improving their lives. GDP per capita went from $317 in 1990 to $12,000+ in 2022. And why would they overthrow the CCP now? I didn't claim that the CCP did nothing good and was all bad. There's clearly far worse alternatives than the CCP. Also, it's not accurate to attribute all of China's current success to the current CCP. A lot of it was the seeds planted thanks to the economic liberalization in the preceding few decades when the CCP was more liberal than it is today. > But if the CCP needs to be overthrown and is no longer working for Chinese people, they will overthrow it. Authoritarian states create mechanisms that make them difficult to overthrow.
  - 4y ago