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China is a currency manipulator, human rights abuser, and a non-democratic state. that is a country we have done business with, and looked past, but the US can'

China is a currency manipulator, human rights abuser, and a non-democratic state. that is a country we have done business with, and looked past, but the US can't be "friends" with terms like that. The relentless anti china propaganda has nothing on the BS that china's state-owned media has said about the US over the last decade. The AVERAGE issue of global times is worse than trump's rhetoric.

tauwauwau 4y ago
Moral judgement in international relations is not a necessity. Please think of other countries that US is allies which with same attributes mentioned in your comments. i.e. Saudi Arabia. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, what I do mean is there are different rules for engagement between countries than people.
- HyperSane 4y ago
  "Moral judgement in international relations is not a necessity." Does this apply to Germany during WWII?
  - realjhol 4y ago
    Both the UK and America targeted their bombs at civilians. This childish good vs. evil boomer narrative needs to die
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      Civilian casualty is the lowest-common-denominator. Right now, China is under scrutiny for current human rights abuses and a potential domestic ethnic-cleansing a-la third Reich. That's a slightly different situation than indiscriminate civilian casualty.
      - realjhol 4y ago
        You don't need to defend the government. In the sham-democracy, you have as little control over their actions as the government of china
        smoldesu 4y ago
        Trust me, I don't. I have close to 6,000 comments on this site, many attesting to my hatred of the United States and the dysfunction of it's government. That being said, nobody is fooled by the ad-reductio distraction of "both governments do bad things". China is now (since Aug. '22) accused of serious human rights violations by the United Nations for their treatment of the Uighur population. Someone approved of it, and it's very likely the the current regime is aware of it. None of this stuff is up for debate, or diluted when you mention the US' own failings. It's just extremely embarrassing for China, who wants to be treated like a respected Western superpower, but can't own up to it's mistakes when they do slip up. They won't acknowledge Tiananmen Square, they won't let people debate Hong Kong, they won't deny the Uighur extermination, and now they're refusing to let the global stage investigate the origin site of the worst pandemic in a century. You can see why people would draw their own conclusions here. Even if all of this was propaganda vs propaganda (which it isn't, but I'll entertain in good faith), China is still losing. Despite their authoritarian grasp on information, they can't control the global perception of them. It's the ultimate insecurity, and incompatible with the global ideals of information freedom. Again, even if you are right, and western affairs are controlled by a mysterious free-speech cabal/shadow-government, I don't see how it changes China's disadvantage on the global stage. It took a fraction of the world's military forces to repel Russia from Ukraine, preventing a sea-based invasion of Taiwan is probably easier than the average NATO wargaming exercise. And then China would be similarly disgraced, and forced to rectify their impulsive actions with a world that doesn't want to be a part of them. If they want to carry out their reunification plan, it would destroy them.
      - nebula8804 4y ago
        Honestly the whole Xinjang issue seems to be a red herring used by the West for their own purposes. They never cared about the plight of Muslims before (eg. military adventures/regime change in the middle east, support of apartheid Israel and suppressing the human rights of Palestinians), why would you expect them to actually care about Uyghur Muslims other than what this group can do to advance western fake moral outrage?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - HyperSane 4y ago
      Good vs Evil is a spectrum from Mr. Rogers to Pol Pot. This childish postmodern idea of moral relativism needs to die.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- marak830 4y ago
  Moral judgements should be a larger part of I ternstional relationships. That they are not, for a fiscal treason, is an absolute travesty. We should - all - be demanding that our trading partners stand up for the things we believe in. To sweep a genocide or abhorrent human rights record under the table - without even attempting to make a comment - is a sign of weakness, that every country has. For profit. Personally, my standards are higher than making a profit with one group, especially when there are always more groups. No country is perfect, but shouldn't we try to convince others and as such, hold ourselves to a higher standard?
senttoschool 4y ago
US is a war machine, can drum up support to invade any country even if they're lies, and in the last 300 years, it's hard to find a country that has abused more human rights. The birth of the US coincided with a genocide of native Americans, wars for more land, slavery of an entire people. And yet, the US actually has allies. After all the crap the US has done, it still has allies. What? Why? Oh, because it's all about economics and power.
- Ankaios 4y ago
  And yet, the US actually has allies. After all the crap the US has done, it still has allies. What? Why? Oh, because it's all about economics and power. Interesting thesis. At the same time, China has few allies. Does that mean China has a poor economy and little power?
  - senttoschool 4y ago
    Interesting thesis. At the same time, China has few allies. Does that mean China has a poor economy and little power? Maybe it's news to you but China has been poor for nearly 150+ years. In the past, China had the highest GDP in the world. But the opium trade, western wars, caused it to become as poor as it did. It's only in the last 10 years or so that China's economy has been big enough to garner more allies. Even so, maybe propaganda has convinced you that China has no allies? For example, 37 countries signed a letter supporting China's anti-domestic terrorism tactics in Xinjiang.
    - EFreethought 4y ago
      It's not news to some of us. Part of that is that the last imperial dynasty to rule China was not Chinese, but ethnically Manchurian. A lot of problems came from that. Granted, that does not make it okay that the West helped carve them up. But a lot of their external issues in the past few centuries have internal root. If the Han and the Manchurians could not get along, how is that the West's fault? WRT "terrorism" in Xinjiang: I think non-Han minorities might have a different opinion than the official Beijing line.
    - 4y ago
super256 4y ago
Currency manipulation? Do you mean when their central bank is buying dollar assets?

tauwauwau 4y ago

Moral judgement in international relations is not a necessity. Please think of other countries that US is allies which with same attributes mentioned in your comments. i.e. Saudi Arabia. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, what I do mean is there are different rules for engagement between countries than people.

HyperSane 4y ago
"Moral judgement in international relations is not a necessity." Does this apply to Germany during WWII?
- realjhol 4y ago
  Both the UK and America targeted their bombs at civilians. This childish good vs. evil boomer narrative needs to die
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Civilian casualty is the lowest-common-denominator. Right now, China is under scrutiny for current human rights abuses and a potential domestic ethnic-cleansing a-la third Reich. That's a slightly different situation than indiscriminate civilian casualty.
    - realjhol 4y ago
      You don't need to defend the government. In the sham-democracy, you have as little control over their actions as the government of china
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        Trust me, I don't. I have close to 6,000 comments on this site, many attesting to my hatred of the United States and the dysfunction of it's government. That being said, nobody is fooled by the ad-reductio distraction of "both governments do bad things". China is now (since Aug. '22) accused of serious human rights violations by the United Nations for their treatment of the Uighur population. Someone approved of it, and it's very likely the the current regime is aware of it. None of this stuff is up for debate, or diluted when you mention the US' own failings. It's just extremely embarrassing for China, who wants to be treated like a respected Western superpower, but can't own up to it's mistakes when they do slip up. They won't acknowledge Tiananmen Square, they won't let people debate Hong Kong, they won't deny the Uighur extermination, and now they're refusing to let the global stage investigate the origin site of the worst pandemic in a century. You can see why people would draw their own conclusions here. Even if all of this was propaganda vs propaganda (which it isn't, but I'll entertain in good faith), China is still losing. Despite their authoritarian grasp on information, they can't control the global perception of them. It's the ultimate insecurity, and incompatible with the global ideals of information freedom. Again, even if you are right, and western affairs are controlled by a mysterious free-speech cabal/shadow-government, I don't see how it changes China's disadvantage on the global stage. It took a fraction of the world's military forces to repel Russia from Ukraine, preventing a sea-based invasion of Taiwan is probably easier than the average NATO wargaming exercise. And then China would be similarly disgraced, and forced to rectify their impulsive actions with a world that doesn't want to be a part of them. If they want to carry out their reunification plan, it would destroy them.
    - nebula8804 4y ago
      Honestly the whole Xinjang issue seems to be a red herring used by the West for their own purposes. They never cared about the plight of Muslims before (eg. military adventures/regime change in the middle east, support of apartheid Israel and suppressing the human rights of Palestinians), why would you expect them to actually care about Uyghur Muslims other than what this group can do to advance western fake moral outrage?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - HyperSane 4y ago
    Good vs Evil is a spectrum from Mr. Rogers to Pol Pot. This childish postmodern idea of moral relativism needs to die.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
marak830 4y ago
Moral judgements should be a larger part of I ternstional relationships. That they are not, for a fiscal treason, is an absolute travesty. We should - all - be demanding that our trading partners stand up for the things we believe in. To sweep a genocide or abhorrent human rights record under the table - without even attempting to make a comment - is a sign of weakness, that every country has. For profit. Personally, my standards are higher than making a profit with one group, especially when there are always more groups. No country is perfect, but shouldn't we try to convince others and as such, hold ourselves to a higher standard?

senttoschool 4y ago

US is a war machine, can drum up support to invade any country even if they're lies, and in the last 300 years, it's hard to find a country that has abused more human rights. The birth of the US coincided with a genocide of native Americans, wars for more land, slavery of an entire people. And yet, the US actually has allies. After all the crap the US has done, it still has allies. What? Why? Oh, because it's all about economics and power.

Ankaios 4y ago
And yet, the US actually has allies. After all the crap the US has done, it still has allies. What? Why? Oh, because it's all about economics and power. Interesting thesis. At the same time, China has few allies. Does that mean China has a poor economy and little power?
- senttoschool 4y ago
  Interesting thesis. At the same time, China has few allies. Does that mean China has a poor economy and little power? Maybe it's news to you but China has been poor for nearly 150+ years. In the past, China had the highest GDP in the world. But the opium trade, western wars, caused it to become as poor as it did. It's only in the last 10 years or so that China's economy has been big enough to garner more allies. Even so, maybe propaganda has convinced you that China has no allies? For example, 37 countries signed a letter supporting China's anti-domestic terrorism tactics in Xinjiang.
  - EFreethought 4y ago
    It's not news to some of us. Part of that is that the last imperial dynasty to rule China was not Chinese, but ethnically Manchurian. A lot of problems came from that. Granted, that does not make it okay that the West helped carve them up. But a lot of their external issues in the past few centuries have internal root. If the Han and the Manchurians could not get along, how is that the West's fault? WRT "terrorism" in Xinjiang: I think non-Han minorities might have a different opinion than the official Beijing line.
  - 4y ago

super256 4y ago

Currency manipulation? Do you mean when their central bank is buying dollar assets?