4 ms·

So given that they have the legal right to come to your house and forcibly take a leased car from you if you miss payments, a few nag features honestly seem lik

So given that they have the legal right to come to your house and forcibly take a leased car from you if you miss payments, a few nag features honestly seem like an improvement. I would just want to be sure as hell that a car I own outright wouldn't even have the hardware available to do such a thing.

Nextgrid 4y ago
Problem is that it makes it so easy that eventually we'll end up in a world where you can't outright own a car and everyone is stuck in perpetual leases. This already happened with the software industry with most stuff nowadays being a subscription.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > This already happened with the software industry with most stuff nowadays being a subscription. It hasn't really happened yet. There is still plenty of software you can own. None of the software I use is subscription-based, and there no software that I lack. But yes, this is clearly the direction that software companies want to go, and I think it's important that we reject this.
- kube-system 4y ago
  The software doesn’t do that. Cars that cost as much as a typical yearly salary does that.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    Yes but right now car manufacturers have probably done the math and realize it's profitable to sell cars outright at a certain price, that while expensive, is still affordable to at least the upper middle classes. With this technology that allows ultra-personalized, real-time rent seeking over every minor feature of the car, it may become more profitable for car manufacturers to force everyone to a lease so they can use this tech, thus intentionally raising the price even more (out of reach of pretty much everyone) for the "own outright" model.
paganel 4y ago
There's very few things left that we "own outright", unfortunately. That's the whole problem with acts like this one.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  I don't think this is true, yet. Literally everything I have, I own outright.
  - paganel 4y ago
    You're definitely in the minority when it comes to the Western world. The people who can still afford to purchase a house/place to live can only do it via mortgage, which means you're not an outright owner until, I don't know, you get to 50-60 years of age. You could say that people who can't afford a mortgage and are hence forced to rent (I'm part of that group) are then not part of the "not outright owners" discussion, but I don't know if that makes the situation better for them, to the contrary. What if my landloard decides to remotely stop some things working around the house if I happen to be late with paying rent some months? Such as the AC not being available anymore. Or one of the clothes cabinets not opening. Because that's what's happening here with Ford and its leasing clients.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      > You're definitely in the minority when it comes to the Western world. This is certainly true, and it's because of conscious decisions I've made to avoid debt and fixed recurring expenses. I wasn't trying to say that my situation is the norm, I was using myself as an example to demonstrate that "There's very few things left that we "own outright"" isn't accurate, or at least isn't because there are no other options. A house is an obvious exception, because they're too expensive for almost anyone to buy outright.
  - flandish 4y ago
    Your land? You don’t own it “outright” - stop paying taxes for a few years. The town will come and arrest you, taking the land by threat of death. (They’ll use police.)
flandish 4y ago
An issue will appear down the road when you have title in hand and can’t fully confirm the car is “clear” of all ability from them to brick it or features. Who knows - maybe a lot like the John Deere thing - a title may transform into a long contract whereby you wrench yourself and it becomes void.

Nextgrid 4y ago

Problem is that it makes it so easy that eventually we'll end up in a world where you can't outright own a car and everyone is stuck in perpetual leases. This already happened with the software industry with most stuff nowadays being a subscription.

JohnFen 4y ago
> This already happened with the software industry with most stuff nowadays being a subscription. It hasn't really happened yet. There is still plenty of software you can own. None of the software I use is subscription-based, and there no software that I lack. But yes, this is clearly the direction that software companies want to go, and I think it's important that we reject this.
kube-system 4y ago
The software doesn’t do that. Cars that cost as much as a typical yearly salary does that.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  Yes but right now car manufacturers have probably done the math and realize it's profitable to sell cars outright at a certain price, that while expensive, is still affordable to at least the upper middle classes. With this technology that allows ultra-personalized, real-time rent seeking over every minor feature of the car, it may become more profitable for car manufacturers to force everyone to a lease so they can use this tech, thus intentionally raising the price even more (out of reach of pretty much everyone) for the "own outright" model.

paganel 4y ago

There's very few things left that we "own outright", unfortunately. That's the whole problem with acts like this one.

JohnFen 4y ago
I don't think this is true, yet. Literally everything I have, I own outright.
- paganel 4y ago
  You're definitely in the minority when it comes to the Western world. The people who can still afford to purchase a house/place to live can only do it via mortgage, which means you're not an outright owner until, I don't know, you get to 50-60 years of age. You could say that people who can't afford a mortgage and are hence forced to rent (I'm part of that group) are then not part of the "not outright owners" discussion, but I don't know if that makes the situation better for them, to the contrary. What if my landloard decides to remotely stop some things working around the house if I happen to be late with paying rent some months? Such as the AC not being available anymore. Or one of the clothes cabinets not opening. Because that's what's happening here with Ford and its leasing clients.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    > You're definitely in the minority when it comes to the Western world. This is certainly true, and it's because of conscious decisions I've made to avoid debt and fixed recurring expenses. I wasn't trying to say that my situation is the norm, I was using myself as an example to demonstrate that "There's very few things left that we "own outright"" isn't accurate, or at least isn't because there are no other options. A house is an obvious exception, because they're too expensive for almost anyone to buy outright.
- flandish 4y ago
  Your land? You don’t own it “outright” - stop paying taxes for a few years. The town will come and arrest you, taking the land by threat of death. (They’ll use police.)

flandish 4y ago

An issue will appear down the road when you have title in hand and can’t fully confirm the car is “clear” of all ability from them to brick it or features. Who knows - maybe a lot like the John Deere thing - a title may transform into a long contract whereby you wrench yourself and it becomes void.