4 ms·

I used BetterHelp mid-pandemic. It's one of the few times I've issued a credit card chargeback. Their business model is one big scam. You don't pay per-session

by dymk 4y ago

I used BetterHelp mid-pandemic. It's one of the few times I've issued a credit card chargeback. Their business model is one big scam. You don't pay per-session, you pay per-month. Thus, they oversubscribe their "therapists" (who are almost all independent contractors doing BH as their side gig), and so the incentive is encourage you to book as infrequently as possible. Once you take that into account, it ends up being as expensive or more than a traditional therapist.

crazygringo 4y ago
I haven't used it but always figured it might be a good way to dip your toes in the water. One of the hardest parts of starting therapy is finding a therapist who's a good match for you. And it's a lot of work to find therapists, schedule, have an awkward conversation after a first session about whether you'll have a second... So even if it winds up being the same price or even more, it could still be a net benefit in terms of being an efficient and anxiety-free way of finding a therapist who's a good match. Or even just the right therapy modality. I've often wondered, though, once you find a therapist you like, what prevents you from just seeing them directly, without BetterHelp taking their cut?
- dymk 4y ago
  It's not as good of a deal though, because - 1) you're dealing with therapists who are treating this like a side gig, - 2) they're all overbooked, - 3) dealing with a company that prioritizes money extraction over helping people, and - 4) a poor experience with BH (likely) turns people off from therapy, which can be an actually wonderful experience. I really can't blame the therapists much. Hate the game, not the player. BetterHelp the company needs to shape up.
SkyPuncher 4y ago
It seems like a lot of these therapy services are dealing with the fact that a time-based therapy session is simply not fungible or optimizable in any capacity. DoorDash can stack meals, but you can't stack therapy sessions. On top of that, there's a lot of poor therapists (or at least poor therapy-patient pairings) across the industry.
streblo 4y ago
This doesn't qualify as a scam in my book.
modoc 4y ago
Counter-point, they make it easy to try different therapists until you find one you feel comfortable with and you feel is helpful to you (not an easy task) with no additional costs, all from the comfort of your home. I think I was paying ~$60/45 minute session with a great provider, who was always able to get me in schedule-wise, provided great benefit, and saved me from an hour+ drive each way. I know several people, myself included, who have found their service very valuable.
- ilikehurdles 4y ago
  In the same time period this company appeared, therapists also started hosting online sessions en masse. Being an employed person in the US, I have health insurance, so sessions with a therapist of choice were $25 out of pocket.
  - aidenn0 4y ago
    > Being an employed person in the US, I have health insurance, so sessions with a therapist of choice were $25 out of pocket. The overwhelming majority of therapists in my town are not on contract with my HMO. I tried two different therapists who did, and it was so bad you couldn't have paid me to go back.
  - jonathankoren 4y ago
    I'm surprised about the insurance. Most therapists and mental health clinicians don't take insurance (for some reason). Kaiser has mental health professionals on staff, but good luck finding one. Kaiser has been repeatedly in trouble with California for understaffing, and now is funneling people into shitiest apps on ProductHunt as an alternative. https://www.fastcompany.com/90631941/we-have-never-seen-such-an-egregious-case-inside-kaisers-broken-mental-health-care-system https://www.fastcompany.com/90631941/we-have-never-seen-such...
- dmarchand90 4y ago
  Just wanted to write I also used the service and found it to be worth the money. Not perfect, but, it did a good job getting me through a rough patch at a price I felt was reasonable
varispeed 4y ago
> almost all independent contractors Are they though? It seems like corporations found a loophole where they don't have to take on employees, pay proper taxes and abide by employment laws. Just to pre-empt some comments - employees can have multiple employers at the same time and be "independent" the same way as "independent" "contractors". Government really needs to clamp down on this.
- bawolff 4y ago
  This doesn't really seem like an abuse of contractors. The therapists on better help: choose their own hours, can choose not to work with certain clients, can choose what type of therapy to use, etc. This seems like a pretty textbook example of what an independent contractor should be. > and be "independent" the same way as "independent" "contractors". Employees can be some level of independent, but usually the level of control is the defining feature of employee vs contractor.
  - varispeed 4y ago
    > The therapists on better help: choose their own hours, can choose not to work with certain clients, can choose what type of therapy to use, etc. Employees can do that too. > the level of control is the defining feature of employee vs contractor. Not really. The most defining factor is substitution, but that is not always true. For instance if a contractor has never even looked how they could provide a substitute, then most likely they are only a "contractor" on paper.
    - bawolff 4y ago
      Just because someone can be an employee doesn't mean it is an abuse for them to be a contractor. There is some overlap where either status fits.
      - varispeed 4y ago
        But in that case this is exploitation, because people who are de-facto employees don't get the same rights as employees. You could only advocate for this if you had a vested interest in a big corporation using such a loophole. Otherwise, e.g. is supermarket a platform that gives independent contractors the ability to work on the tills or stack shelves etc? The only difference here is that the "platform" is on the internet.
jonathankoren 4y ago
A "scam"? That's a pretty strong word. I'd go with an "ineffective ripoff". I tried two competitors. Both were horrible. Thirty minute sessions, where the "therapist" did all the talking, and then occasionally gave a PDF worksheet. Apparently this is "cognitive behavioral therapy". I tried TalkSpace twice. My favorite experience was when I texted the "therapist" and got back -- and let me quote in full -- "That's a lot. Can you fill out this worksheet, and do this self-assessment?" (This would be the same assessment I had done four times prior. And the worksheet looked like it came from the chummiest chumsite on the web. There was even a URL on the bottom, where she had just clicked "Print | Save to PDF". I tried Cerebral, and its "therapists" were equally worthless. However, the "prescriber" gave me an SSRI (shockingly fast), which actually helped. Cerebral felt like a pill mill, and apparently the DOJ also thinks so. https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/9/23063356/cerebral-telehealth-prescriptions-investigation-adhd-adderall-doj-dea https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/9/23063356/cerebral-teleheal...
ornornor 4y ago
Was pretty underwhelmed at it as well and had a very similar experience to yours. The therapists were also no very good, talking themselves all the time. And now this. I wouldn’t touch it with a ten feet pole and request my data to be deleted (if we can still trust them to do so)

by dymk 4y ago

crazygringo 4y ago

I haven't used it but always figured it might be a good way to dip your toes in the water. One of the hardest parts of starting therapy is finding a therapist who's a good match for you. And it's a lot of work to find therapists, schedule, have an awkward conversation after a first session about whether you'll have a second... So even if it winds up being the same price or even more, it could still be a net benefit in terms of being an efficient and anxiety-free way of finding a therapist who's a good match. Or even just the right therapy modality. I've often wondered, though, once you find a therapist you like, what prevents you from just seeing them directly, without BetterHelp taking their cut?

dymk 4y ago
It's not as good of a deal though, because - 1) you're dealing with therapists who are treating this like a side gig, - 2) they're all overbooked, - 3) dealing with a company that prioritizes money extraction over helping people, and - 4) a poor experience with BH (likely) turns people off from therapy, which can be an actually wonderful experience. I really can't blame the therapists much. Hate the game, not the player. BetterHelp the company needs to shape up.

SkyPuncher 4y ago

It seems like a lot of these therapy services are dealing with the fact that a time-based therapy session is simply not fungible or optimizable in any capacity. DoorDash can stack meals, but you can't stack therapy sessions. On top of that, there's a lot of poor therapists (or at least poor therapy-patient pairings) across the industry.

streblo 4y ago

This doesn't qualify as a scam in my book.

modoc 4y ago

Counter-point, they make it easy to try different therapists until you find one you feel comfortable with and you feel is helpful to you (not an easy task) with no additional costs, all from the comfort of your home. I think I was paying ~$60/45 minute session with a great provider, who was always able to get me in schedule-wise, provided great benefit, and saved me from an hour+ drive each way. I know several people, myself included, who have found their service very valuable.

ilikehurdles 4y ago
In the same time period this company appeared, therapists also started hosting online sessions en masse. Being an employed person in the US, I have health insurance, so sessions with a therapist of choice were $25 out of pocket.
- aidenn0 4y ago
  > Being an employed person in the US, I have health insurance, so sessions with a therapist of choice were $25 out of pocket. The overwhelming majority of therapists in my town are not on contract with my HMO. I tried two different therapists who did, and it was so bad you couldn't have paid me to go back.
- jonathankoren 4y ago
  I'm surprised about the insurance. Most therapists and mental health clinicians don't take insurance (for some reason). Kaiser has mental health professionals on staff, but good luck finding one. Kaiser has been repeatedly in trouble with California for understaffing, and now is funneling people into shitiest apps on ProductHunt as an alternative. https://www.fastcompany.com/90631941/we-have-never-seen-such-an-egregious-case-inside-kaisers-broken-mental-health-care-system https://www.fastcompany.com/90631941/we-have-never-seen-such...
dmarchand90 4y ago
Just wanted to write I also used the service and found it to be worth the money. Not perfect, but, it did a good job getting me through a rough patch at a price I felt was reasonable

varispeed 4y ago

> almost all independent contractors Are they though? It seems like corporations found a loophole where they don't have to take on employees, pay proper taxes and abide by employment laws. Just to pre-empt some comments - employees can have multiple employers at the same time and be "independent" the same way as "independent" "contractors". Government really needs to clamp down on this.

bawolff 4y ago
This doesn't really seem like an abuse of contractors. The therapists on better help: choose their own hours, can choose not to work with certain clients, can choose what type of therapy to use, etc. This seems like a pretty textbook example of what an independent contractor should be. > and be "independent" the same way as "independent" "contractors". Employees can be some level of independent, but usually the level of control is the defining feature of employee vs contractor.
- varispeed 4y ago
  > The therapists on better help: choose their own hours, can choose not to work with certain clients, can choose what type of therapy to use, etc. Employees can do that too. > the level of control is the defining feature of employee vs contractor. Not really. The most defining factor is substitution, but that is not always true. For instance if a contractor has never even looked how they could provide a substitute, then most likely they are only a "contractor" on paper.
  - bawolff 4y ago
    Just because someone can be an employee doesn't mean it is an abuse for them to be a contractor. There is some overlap where either status fits.
    - varispeed 4y ago
      But in that case this is exploitation, because people who are de-facto employees don't get the same rights as employees. You could only advocate for this if you had a vested interest in a big corporation using such a loophole. Otherwise, e.g. is supermarket a platform that gives independent contractors the ability to work on the tills or stack shelves etc? The only difference here is that the "platform" is on the internet.

jonathankoren 4y ago

A "scam"? That's a pretty strong word. I'd go with an "ineffective ripoff". I tried two competitors. Both were horrible. Thirty minute sessions, where the "therapist" did all the talking, and then occasionally gave a PDF worksheet. Apparently this is "cognitive behavioral therapy". I tried TalkSpace twice. My favorite experience was when I texted the "therapist" and got back -- and let me quote in full -- "That's a lot. Can you fill out this worksheet, and do this self-assessment?" (This would be the same assessment I had done four times prior. And the worksheet looked like it came from the chummiest chumsite on the web. There was even a URL on the bottom, where she had just clicked "Print | Save to PDF". I tried Cerebral, and its "therapists" were equally worthless. However, the "prescriber" gave me an SSRI (shockingly fast), which actually helped. Cerebral felt like a pill mill, and apparently the DOJ also thinks so. https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/9/23063356/cerebral-telehealth-prescriptions-investigation-adhd-adderall-doj-dea https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/9/23063356/cerebral-teleheal...

ornornor 4y ago

Was pretty underwhelmed at it as well and had a very similar experience to yours. The therapists were also no very good, talking themselves all the time. And now this. I wouldn’t touch it with a ten feet pole and request my data to be deleted (if we can still trust them to do so)