4 ms·

> What is left to fight for? - Non-competes being used for fast-food workers - Tech employees asked to work on military projects (at places that aren't tradit

by ok_dad 4y ago

> What is left to fight for? - Non-competes being used for fast-food workers - Tech employees asked to work on military projects (at places that aren't traditionally servicing the military) - Minimum wages are still like $8 in some states, which is redicuous today - Companies only giving workers 29.5 hours of work when the minimum for "full time benefits" is 30 hours - Workers being fired for saying/doing things outside of work - Companies laying off massive numbers of employees without doing the legally-required steps - etc.

Alupis 4y ago
> Non-competes being used for fast-food workers Non-competes are illegal in California. This is a state or Federal issue, not a Union issue. > Tech employees asked to work on military projects (at places that aren't traditionally servicing the military) This is an ideology issue, and does not belong in the workplace at all. > Minimum wages are still like $8 in some states, which is redicuous today This story is much deeper than headlines would lead you to believe. For starters, the cost of living in majority of this country is low. Companies pay market rates, and the government sets minimum wages. > Companies only giving workers 29.5 hours of work when the minimum for "full time benefits" is 30 hours Most companies are not required to offer any benefits - full time or not. > Workers being fired for saying/doing things outside of work Yet we routinely cancel people for things they said 15 years ago... > Companies laying off massive numbers of employees without doing the legally-required steps And the courts take care of that already. Practically none, or none, of the issues you brought up can be solved by a Union.
- quantumquetzal 4y ago
  My personal feelings on unions aside, I think some of these points a union COULD address. - Non-competes. Your rationale for non-competes is a non sequitur here. A union can represent workers and negotiate against signing non-competes if it is legal in a state, which would make a union desirable in that case. - Military contracts. Whether it belongs in the workplace is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that there are many tech employees who are averse to working on certain projects, and a union representing them would be able to negotiate what kind of contracts their members would work on. - Benefits - A union certainly is viable here. - Outside of work - a union would certainly be able to defend their members’ right to not be terminated for reasons irrelevant to their work, expressing their opinions on a controversial matter being one of those potential reasons.
  - Alupis 4y ago
    Specifically regarding non-competes - No, a Union negotiating for no non-compete does nobody any good. The moment you go to a different company that is not serviced by that same Union (or perhaps the Union did not negotiate this), then you are back at square one - signing a non-compete or finding a different job. The only solution to non-competes is at the State and Federal level. Anything less solves nothing, but sounds good...
    - kazen44 4y ago
      and how would we get the lawmakers in this country to actually propose regulation that would fix non-competes? Mind you, corporations have an absolute amount of influence in politics compared to the average worker. A union is also a political force which looks after political interest of workers.
      - Alupis 4y ago
        Somehow California did it... If the people of your state don't think it's important enough to make into a law, then it's not important enough to the people in your state. You are free to disagree, but apparently most of the people in your state do not. Change it at the State or Federal level. Everything else accomplishes nothing. Unions aren't a magic bullet, and do not apply across different businesses.
- ok_dad 4y ago
  Literally any workplace issues can be solved through collective worker action, if there are enough workers. The trick is to get enough workers into the union to be able to have a say in the things I listed, and more. What do you propose? Politicians are in the pocket of the opposite interest from the workers, they are the capitalists' tools. Companies aren't going to change, because they want more profits above all else. Do you expect to just wait to be given more rights? People keep shooting down unions, but then offer literally zero solutions.
slackdog 4y ago
[flagged]
- ok_dad 4y ago
  That's the thing about employees: not all of them are you. Other people have different opinions. I personally do not want to do direct work on military or defense projects, so it would be important to me that any place I work has some employee input into the process of customer selection. Feel free to bash me all you want about that, but the fact of the matter is that I and many other people feel differently than you do.

by ok_dad 4y ago

Alupis 4y ago

> Non-competes being used for fast-food workers Non-competes are illegal in California. This is a state or Federal issue, not a Union issue. > Tech employees asked to work on military projects (at places that aren't traditionally servicing the military) This is an ideology issue, and does not belong in the workplace at all. > Minimum wages are still like $8 in some states, which is redicuous today This story is much deeper than headlines would lead you to believe. For starters, the cost of living in majority of this country is low. Companies pay market rates, and the government sets minimum wages. > Companies only giving workers 29.5 hours of work when the minimum for "full time benefits" is 30 hours Most companies are not required to offer any benefits - full time or not. > Workers being fired for saying/doing things outside of work Yet we routinely cancel people for things they said 15 years ago... > Companies laying off massive numbers of employees without doing the legally-required steps And the courts take care of that already. Practically none, or none, of the issues you brought up can be solved by a Union.

quantumquetzal 4y ago
My personal feelings on unions aside, I think some of these points a union COULD address. - Non-competes. Your rationale for non-competes is a non sequitur here. A union can represent workers and negotiate against signing non-competes if it is legal in a state, which would make a union desirable in that case. - Military contracts. Whether it belongs in the workplace is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that there are many tech employees who are averse to working on certain projects, and a union representing them would be able to negotiate what kind of contracts their members would work on. - Benefits - A union certainly is viable here. - Outside of work - a union would certainly be able to defend their members’ right to not be terminated for reasons irrelevant to their work, expressing their opinions on a controversial matter being one of those potential reasons.
- Alupis 4y ago
  Specifically regarding non-competes - No, a Union negotiating for no non-compete does nobody any good. The moment you go to a different company that is not serviced by that same Union (or perhaps the Union did not negotiate this), then you are back at square one - signing a non-compete or finding a different job. The only solution to non-competes is at the State and Federal level. Anything less solves nothing, but sounds good...
  - kazen44 4y ago
    and how would we get the lawmakers in this country to actually propose regulation that would fix non-competes? Mind you, corporations have an absolute amount of influence in politics compared to the average worker. A union is also a political force which looks after political interest of workers.
    - Alupis 4y ago
      Somehow California did it... If the people of your state don't think it's important enough to make into a law, then it's not important enough to the people in your state. You are free to disagree, but apparently most of the people in your state do not. Change it at the State or Federal level. Everything else accomplishes nothing. Unions aren't a magic bullet, and do not apply across different businesses.
ok_dad 4y ago
Literally any workplace issues can be solved through collective worker action, if there are enough workers. The trick is to get enough workers into the union to be able to have a say in the things I listed, and more. What do you propose? Politicians are in the pocket of the opposite interest from the workers, they are the capitalists' tools. Companies aren't going to change, because they want more profits above all else. Do you expect to just wait to be given more rights? People keep shooting down unions, but then offer literally zero solutions.

slackdog 4y ago

[flagged]

ok_dad 4y ago
That's the thing about employees: not all of them are you. Other people have different opinions. I personally do not want to do direct work on military or defense projects, so it would be important to me that any place I work has some employee input into the process of customer selection. Feel free to bash me all you want about that, but the fact of the matter is that I and many other people feel differently than you do.