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It’s about class. Not in the usual American sense of how much money you make, but in the older sense of people thinking they are better sorts of people because

It’s about class. Not in the usual American sense of how much money you make, but in the older sense of people thinking they are better sorts of people because they have the correct diction, education, religious views, professions, and so on.

walleeee 4y ago
Indeed, and someone with money and a desire to prevent actual class conflict can get a lot of mileage out of encouraging tensions in the narrow, purely expressive sense you describe
- bradleyjg 4y ago
  That’s the Marxist analysis and there might be something to it, but I think the main driver is just human nature. People like to feel superior. In one era that was “I’m a devout Christian from a good family unlike those other whores and sodomites,” in another it was “I’m a hard working industrialist unlike those lazy, old money playboys,” and now it’s “I’m a social worker dealing with the problems of BIPOC folx, unlike those finance bros that only care about money.”
  - walleeee 4y ago
    Right, this is not a new phenomenon. Whether it's meaningful to pin it on human nature, I'm not sure; we consider ourselves unique as a species largely for our ability to recursively adapt the environment to ourselves, and then ourselves to the new state of affairs, and so on. We do generally prefer to think we're smart and good and well-informed and justified in our decisions, no doubt. We also usually prefer to keep what we have, which could be taken to support the traditional Marxist line. All I'm saying is in an attention economy, one does well to reflect and ask who benefits from one's beliefs and their mode of expression. Substitute money for power, reputation, or any scarce social resource, and I think the analysis still tends to work, whether or not it echoes Marx.
germandiago 4y ago
It is a universal truth that all of us feel worse or better than. No matter how mich politically-correct stuff you put on top. And there is nothing wrong with it. Respect is the only thing needed.
cwkoss 4y ago
I wonder how much if this is a result of corporate power fighting for ever-increasing economic inequality. Class discussions about material wealth are excluded from the zeitgeist because they make the ultrarich people who control things uncomfortable and they don't want any discussion that could lead to change. The war over language could perhaps be viewed as a way to enjoy the privileges of classism without the material requirements. It doesn't threaten capital, so it is amplified to drown out dissent.
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  > It doesn't threaten capital, so it is amplified to drown out dissent. Wedge issues have been political footballs since the Reagan Era. Keep everyone riled up about something essentially trivial and no real economic changes happen. A ~20 year old punk song goes "we are the queer / we are the whore / the ammunition / of the class war"

walleeee 4y ago

Indeed, and someone with money and a desire to prevent actual class conflict can get a lot of mileage out of encouraging tensions in the narrow, purely expressive sense you describe

bradleyjg 4y ago
That’s the Marxist analysis and there might be something to it, but I think the main driver is just human nature. People like to feel superior. In one era that was “I’m a devout Christian from a good family unlike those other whores and sodomites,” in another it was “I’m a hard working industrialist unlike those lazy, old money playboys,” and now it’s “I’m a social worker dealing with the problems of BIPOC folx, unlike those finance bros that only care about money.”
- walleeee 4y ago
  Right, this is not a new phenomenon. Whether it's meaningful to pin it on human nature, I'm not sure; we consider ourselves unique as a species largely for our ability to recursively adapt the environment to ourselves, and then ourselves to the new state of affairs, and so on. We do generally prefer to think we're smart and good and well-informed and justified in our decisions, no doubt. We also usually prefer to keep what we have, which could be taken to support the traditional Marxist line. All I'm saying is in an attention economy, one does well to reflect and ask who benefits from one's beliefs and their mode of expression. Substitute money for power, reputation, or any scarce social resource, and I think the analysis still tends to work, whether or not it echoes Marx.

germandiago 4y ago

It is a universal truth that all of us feel worse or better than. No matter how mich politically-correct stuff you put on top. And there is nothing wrong with it. Respect is the only thing needed.

cwkoss 4y ago

I wonder how much if this is a result of corporate power fighting for ever-increasing economic inequality. Class discussions about material wealth are excluded from the zeitgeist because they make the ultrarich people who control things uncomfortable and they don't want any discussion that could lead to change. The war over language could perhaps be viewed as a way to enjoy the privileges of classism without the material requirements. It doesn't threaten capital, so it is amplified to drown out dissent.

red-iron-pine 4y ago
> It doesn't threaten capital, so it is amplified to drown out dissent. Wedge issues have been political footballs since the Reagan Era. Keep everyone riled up about something essentially trivial and no real economic changes happen. A ~20 year old punk song goes "we are the queer / we are the whore / the ammunition / of the class war"