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You know why these substances exist right? Because the prior substances were cutting a hole in the ozone layer. And at the time the new-then substances weren'
by dsfyu404ed 4y ago
You know why these substances exist right? Because the prior substances were cutting a hole in the ozone layer. And at the time the new-then substances weren't proven bad yet.
And those ozone eating substances themselves came about because the prior refrigerants were more flammable or poisonous and the then-new substances were not yet proven bad.
It's an endless game of whack-a-mole.
- FourHand451 4y agoI don't think any of this is alarming. Nor a reason we should stop trying to solve new problems as we learn of them.
- dsfyu404ed 4y agoI'd rather be exposed to the known-known of propane refrigeration in my consumer devices (car, window unit, refrigerator, mini-split, etc) than risk exposure poorly understood chemicals to reduce the chances of a refrigerant fire from one tiny decimal per capita per lifetime to a slightly smaller tiny decimal per capita per lifetime.
- mustacheemperor 4y agoIt sounds like an endless march of gradual forward progress, since each generation of refrigerants has been less destructive that the one before.
- kragen 4y agothe refrigerants that will still be allowed are literally the ones used in the very first vapor-compression refrigerators in the 19th century: blends of light alkanes, called 'chimogene' at the time; see us patent 87,084 from the year 01869 for example these (and sulfur dioxide) are what cfcs were invented to replace because they were dangerously inflammable if your 'endless march of gradual forward progress' ends up where it started after a century and a half of 'progress' i really question your definition of 'forward'
- slackdog 4y ago> You know why these substances exist right? Because the prior substances were cutting a hole in the ozone layer. Refrigeration may end up back where it originally started (before freon even), using ammonia. Ammonia is somewhat dangerous on a local level (you don't want an ammonia leak in your house..) but AFAIK it doesn't eat up ozone and the local hazard is something that can be mitigated with the right sort of product design.
- labcomputer 4y ago> Ammonia is somewhat dangerous on a local level Like saying that the Ohio train disaster may cause lung irritation, that quite undersells the problem. Ammonia refrigeration is inherently dangerous and has been banned from domestic refrigerators for a long time for good reason. Some regulations are written in blood.
- slackdog 4y agoI think it could be possible to use ammonia in domestic refrigerators safely if appropriate measures were taken. Particularly, require that refrigerators be installed with vent pipes leading from a tamper-resistant enclosure straight to the outside. Such vents would be similar to those used in waste plumbing to protect people from toxic sewer gasses like hydrogen sulfide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drain-waste-vent_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drain-waste-vent_system But jabl is probably right and something like propane would make more sense.
- jabl 4y agoI don't think we'll see ammonia used in domestic refrigeration. Industrial use, sure. I think what we'll see for domestic refrigerants (refrigerators, AC, heat pumps) is hydrocarbons like propane or butane (already a reality for refrigerators in most of the world), and in some cases CO2.
- kragen 4y agoi went to a hotel with an ammonia refrigerator in the kitchen a couple of weeks ago