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This seems like just another iteration of old people decrying technology they don't like: Communication these days is so impersonal. Why can't they have a cha

by treis 4y ago

This seems like just another iteration of old people decrying technology they don't like: Communication these days is so impersonal. Why can't they have a chat instead of public posts Why can't they call and actually talk to each other instead of chat Why can't they write each other e-mails instead of these superficial chats Why can't they send letters instead of these impersonal e-mails Why can't they meet up in person like we used to Communication changes and life goes on. Don't really see much difference with phones. It's just the same "kids these days" and the same obliviousness as always that they've become the "old man yelling at cloud".

GeoAtreides 4y ago
> Don't really see much difference with phones except, you know, the topic we're discussing. Teenage unhappiness. With actual hard data, for example, the number of suicides. So it might just be this time is different. And, last but not least: past performance is not indicative of future results.
horsawlarway 4y ago
Objectively speaking - I think we've never had as many companies vying for our attention as we do today. Worse - we've never had the ability to give those companies real time feedback on whether their strategies are working like we do today. So while I somewhat agree with: > Communication changes and life goes on. Don't really see much difference with phones. It's just the same "kids these days" and the same obliviousness as always that they've become the "old man yelling at cloud". It's pretty hard to argue with the plain fact that teen suicide rates are WAY up compared to the last 40 years. So if you're going to take the opinion "this is just old people being curmudgeons" I don't really see you making a compelling argument that they're wrong. If anything - maybe they're right...?
- treis 4y ago
  >It's pretty hard to argue with the plain fact that teen suicide rates are WAY up compared to the last 40 years. This isn't true: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/8gKudTKiGtcT11FPjKsB27qh86Q=/0x0:1080x1080/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:1080x1080):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/18303766/US_teen_suicide.jpg https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/8gKudTKiGtcT11FPjKsB27qh86Q=... Rates went way down in the 90s & early 2000s before rising back to where they were before. >I don't really see you making a compelling argument that they're wrong. If anything - maybe they're right...? When someone cries wolf in the same way that adults have for basically all of human history you don't need a compelling argument to dismiss them. If I had to look at what is different for kids today than when I grew up I'd point to: (1) Their economic future is uncertain and general economic stress level is higher (2) Related to (1) the pressure around college is dramatically up. Schoolwork is up, resume building activities are up, and parental pressure is up. (3) Opioid crisis (4) Much more likely to get shot at school (5) Kids are more inactive and way fatter.
  - horsawlarway 4y ago
    Yes, that graph is the same graph I looked at, which shows we are (as of the last data point) at the literal highest spot ever. Spiking back up from a very good drop in the 90s/2000s. Edit - to add, three of your 5 items in that list can be correlated pretty well with online activity (social pressure, school shootings, inactivity)
    - zeroonetwothree 4y ago
      Hmm this chart shows that we aren't at all time highs yet: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6630a6.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6630a6.htm (Difference is that it's 15-19 instead of 15-24?)
    - treis 4y ago
      >school shootings See this is exactly what I'm talking about. 20 years ago the prevailing wisdom was that this was caused by violent video games and explicit music. This is what you sound like to me: https://youtu.be/d3GTJOZLaPY https://youtu.be/d3GTJOZLaPY >social pressure I said economic pressure. >inactivity Possibly but there's not a strong proven link between phones and anything.

by treis 4y ago

GeoAtreides 4y ago

> Don't really see much difference with phones except, you know, the topic we're discussing. Teenage unhappiness. With actual hard data, for example, the number of suicides. So it might just be this time is different. And, last but not least: past performance is not indicative of future results.

horsawlarway 4y ago

Objectively speaking - I think we've never had as many companies vying for our attention as we do today. Worse - we've never had the ability to give those companies real time feedback on whether their strategies are working like we do today. So while I somewhat agree with: > Communication changes and life goes on. Don't really see much difference with phones. It's just the same "kids these days" and the same obliviousness as always that they've become the "old man yelling at cloud". It's pretty hard to argue with the plain fact that teen suicide rates are WAY up compared to the last 40 years. So if you're going to take the opinion "this is just old people being curmudgeons" I don't really see you making a compelling argument that they're wrong. If anything - maybe they're right...?

treis 4y ago
>It's pretty hard to argue with the plain fact that teen suicide rates are WAY up compared to the last 40 years. This isn't true: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/8gKudTKiGtcT11FPjKsB27qh86Q=/0x0:1080x1080/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:1080x1080):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/18303766/US_teen_suicide.jpg https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/8gKudTKiGtcT11FPjKsB27qh86Q=... Rates went way down in the 90s & early 2000s before rising back to where they were before. >I don't really see you making a compelling argument that they're wrong. If anything - maybe they're right...? When someone cries wolf in the same way that adults have for basically all of human history you don't need a compelling argument to dismiss them. If I had to look at what is different for kids today than when I grew up I'd point to: (1) Their economic future is uncertain and general economic stress level is higher (2) Related to (1) the pressure around college is dramatically up. Schoolwork is up, resume building activities are up, and parental pressure is up. (3) Opioid crisis (4) Much more likely to get shot at school (5) Kids are more inactive and way fatter.
- horsawlarway 4y ago
  Yes, that graph is the same graph I looked at, which shows we are (as of the last data point) at the literal highest spot ever. Spiking back up from a very good drop in the 90s/2000s. Edit - to add, three of your 5 items in that list can be correlated pretty well with online activity (social pressure, school shootings, inactivity)
  - zeroonetwothree 4y ago
    Hmm this chart shows that we aren't at all time highs yet: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6630a6.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6630a6.htm (Difference is that it's 15-19 instead of 15-24?)
  - treis 4y ago
    >school shootings See this is exactly what I'm talking about. 20 years ago the prevailing wisdom was that this was caused by violent video games and explicit music. This is what you sound like to me: https://youtu.be/d3GTJOZLaPY https://youtu.be/d3GTJOZLaPY >social pressure I said economic pressure. >inactivity Possibly but there's not a strong proven link between phones and anything.