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There's is a near infinite number of competitors to iMessage. There's Whatsapp, Facebook Messenger, Signal, Viber, Kik, Skype, Whatever Google Makes that they'l

There's is a near infinite number of competitors to iMessage. There's Whatsapp, Facebook Messenger, Signal, Viber, Kik, Skype, Whatever Google Makes that they'll kill in six months, WeChat, Snapchat, Lime, Telegram... and I'm sure a bunch of others I've never heard of but other people live and die by. Not mention SMS and MMS. As a result, I don't understand why people are so mad at iMessage that they need it crippled. You're not forced to use it. Apple doesn't block other messaging applications. Plus, this law in question is a great foot in the door. Wait until they start lowering the monetary valuation of companies to slowly encompass all major messaging apps. At which point they'll have leveraged themselves right into a position of ending E2EE forever.

eatsyourtacos 4y ago
I know this thread is from the EU- but I'm giving the US perspective here just FYI. >There's is a near infinite number of competitors to iMessage 50% of phones in the US are apple phones. Nearly everyone is exclusively using iMessage (and doesn't even realize that it's proprietary while trying to mix in SMS). Hardly anyone uses anything like whatsapp here. Good luck getting any somewhat older person to use multiple messaging apps. So to say there are an infinite number of competitors is completely disengenious. >As a result, I don't understand why people are so mad at iMessage that they need it crippled. You're not forced to use it. Apple doesn't block other messaging applications First, apple is not perfect with SMS integration. I was on android for many years. My mom (an apple fanatic) would constantly complain that her messages wouldn't go through, or my messages wouldn't come in. Apple has some SMS issues that, while rare, are either intentional to some degree or they refuse to fix. It got to the point that my mom literally wanted me to move to an iphone simply so I could message her properly. THIS IS WHAT APPLE WANTS. You are absolutely a fool if you don't acknowledge that. They have half the market share and create a walled garden to the point where people feel they must move to their platform simply to properly communicate with people. That being said, I did move to iphone recently. Not just for this- I was sick of android because I want a phone that just works. However, even I felt compelled to just make the switch since everyone I know does use an iphone and iMessage will make it easier for me to communicate with everyone. It was definitely a large factor, even though I hate myself for doing it. Apple is not innocent at all here- it's an objective fact that they have half the market share and specifically do not open up their messaging platform in order to get more people to switch over. It's a flagrant abuse of their power.
- rTX5CMRXIfFG 4y ago
  How is your entire comment not a mere assumption that the issue is within iMessage itself and not other logically possible factors, such as your carrier, your reception, or your mother using her phone incorrectly? Also, allowing alternative messaging apps to be installed in your OS is exactly the opposite of “flagrant abuse”.
  - eatsyourtacos 4y ago
    >How is your entire comment not a mere assumption that the issue is within iMessage itself and not other logically possible factors, such as your carrier, your reception, or your mother using her phone incorrectly? Because it's not an isolated incident. I've heard many people complain about the exact same thing online over the years. Just google it and you will see. Is it rare? Sure. But it's also not uncommon. You point to "logically possible factors", but I never experienced ANY issues with SMS to SMS on android where a problem would be invisible. With SMS <> iMessage, the problem would be invisible: looks sent from one side, but the other has zero indication of an issue. And Apple is under no incentive to 'fix' this or guarantee it never happens because they have a blatant interest in everyone using iMessage by getting iphones. Is this slightly conspiracy theory talk? I agree it borders that. But I also think it's 100% realistic. >Also, allowing alternative messaging apps to be installed in your OS is exactly the opposite of “flagrant abuse”. Apple SPECIFICALLY does not open up iMessage to non-Apple platforms because they want you to buy their phones- something they share a duopoly with. That is the very DEFINITION of market abuse. If Microsoft had some Windows-only messaging platform, most people on this site would be all up in arms about it.
    - jkubicek 4y ago
      > Apple SPECIFICALLY does not open up iMessage to non-Apple platforms because they want you to buy their phones- something they share a duopoly with. That is the very DEFINITION of market abuse. I don't think that's the definition of market abuse at all. Apple created a device and bundled a free "good enough" messaging service with it. If you want to use something else, there's nothing stopping you beyond inertia. Apple clearly isn't going out of it's way to hinder adoption of alternative messaging services.
stale2002 4y ago
> I don't understand why people are so mad at iMessage that they need it crippled. I don't want it crippled. I want them to have to publish their code/spec publicly, so other people can interoperate with it.

eatsyourtacos 4y ago

I know this thread is from the EU- but I'm giving the US perspective here just FYI. >There's is a near infinite number of competitors to iMessage 50% of phones in the US are apple phones. Nearly everyone is exclusively using iMessage (and doesn't even realize that it's proprietary while trying to mix in SMS). Hardly anyone uses anything like whatsapp here. Good luck getting any somewhat older person to use multiple messaging apps. So to say there are an infinite number of competitors is completely disengenious. >As a result, I don't understand why people are so mad at iMessage that they need it crippled. You're not forced to use it. Apple doesn't block other messaging applications First, apple is not perfect with SMS integration. I was on android for many years. My mom (an apple fanatic) would constantly complain that her messages wouldn't go through, or my messages wouldn't come in. Apple has some SMS issues that, while rare, are either intentional to some degree or they refuse to fix. It got to the point that my mom literally wanted me to move to an iphone simply so I could message her properly. THIS IS WHAT APPLE WANTS. You are absolutely a fool if you don't acknowledge that. They have half the market share and create a walled garden to the point where people feel they must move to their platform simply to properly communicate with people. That being said, I did move to iphone recently. Not just for this- I was sick of android because I want a phone that just works. However, even I felt compelled to just make the switch since everyone I know does use an iphone and iMessage will make it easier for me to communicate with everyone. It was definitely a large factor, even though I hate myself for doing it. Apple is not innocent at all here- it's an objective fact that they have half the market share and specifically do not open up their messaging platform in order to get more people to switch over. It's a flagrant abuse of their power.

rTX5CMRXIfFG 4y ago
How is your entire comment not a mere assumption that the issue is within iMessage itself and not other logically possible factors, such as your carrier, your reception, or your mother using her phone incorrectly? Also, allowing alternative messaging apps to be installed in your OS is exactly the opposite of “flagrant abuse”.
- eatsyourtacos 4y ago
  >How is your entire comment not a mere assumption that the issue is within iMessage itself and not other logically possible factors, such as your carrier, your reception, or your mother using her phone incorrectly? Because it's not an isolated incident. I've heard many people complain about the exact same thing online over the years. Just google it and you will see. Is it rare? Sure. But it's also not uncommon. You point to "logically possible factors", but I never experienced ANY issues with SMS to SMS on android where a problem would be invisible. With SMS <> iMessage, the problem would be invisible: looks sent from one side, but the other has zero indication of an issue. And Apple is under no incentive to 'fix' this or guarantee it never happens because they have a blatant interest in everyone using iMessage by getting iphones. Is this slightly conspiracy theory talk? I agree it borders that. But I also think it's 100% realistic. >Also, allowing alternative messaging apps to be installed in your OS is exactly the opposite of “flagrant abuse”. Apple SPECIFICALLY does not open up iMessage to non-Apple platforms because they want you to buy their phones- something they share a duopoly with. That is the very DEFINITION of market abuse. If Microsoft had some Windows-only messaging platform, most people on this site would be all up in arms about it.
  - jkubicek 4y ago
    > Apple SPECIFICALLY does not open up iMessage to non-Apple platforms because they want you to buy their phones- something they share a duopoly with. That is the very DEFINITION of market abuse. I don't think that's the definition of market abuse at all. Apple created a device and bundled a free "good enough" messaging service with it. If you want to use something else, there's nothing stopping you beyond inertia. Apple clearly isn't going out of it's way to hinder adoption of alternative messaging services.

stale2002 4y ago

> I don't understand why people are so mad at iMessage that they need it crippled. I don't want it crippled. I want them to have to publish their code/spec publicly, so other people can interoperate with it.