4 ms·

My APU2C2 from 2016 running OpenBSD can.

slackdog 4y ago
This sort of argument seems similar to "but I can manufacture my own gun in my garage machine shop" That's great for you, but it says little about the ultimate efficacy of a policy on a general population level. Japan's gun ban is generally effective, even though you occasionally have somebody who successfully makes their own homemade gun. And regulation requiring computers to spy on their owners could become generally effective, even if a few people like yourself have the technical know-how and inclination to opt yourself out.
- irusensei 4y ago
  I don't think such controls on software and data are as enforceable as fire arms. And older router that can run OpenWRT is way easier to procure than a 3d printer or a cnc machine.
  - slackdog 4y ago
    Why not? Anybody can make a homemade shotgun with standard tools and hardware store parts, but very few people do. Very few people simultaneously have both the technical know-how and the inclination, therefore gun bans are generally effective by simply banning the easiest and laziest way of getting guns (buying them.) Even people with overt criminal intentions rarely make their own guns. I think the same will likely be true for legally-enforced client side scanning. It is already the case that few people simultaneously have both the knowledge and inclination to "jailbreak" their phones. Throw in stiff legal penalties for doing so and even fewer people will do it. A few people still will, but if most people don't then the ban will still be effective even though it's possible to squeeze through the cracks. In both cases, instructions for circumventing the law may be found online by anybody that cares to look. But most people won't.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - irusensei 4y ago
      Like piracy? It's ilegal and fines are often hefty so shouldn't it deter people from pirating movies or downloading roms etc? I don't think it's a good comparison. It's pretty much unenforceable outside of apple cellphones and very hard to detect.
      - slackdog 4y ago
        > Like piracy? It's ilegal and fines are often hefty so shouldn't it deter people from pirating movies or downloading roms etc? Yes, and it mostly works! Bans on piracy work well already, most people don't torrent games or movies. And locked down platforms exist, demonstrating the technical feasibility of even greater control. Software piracy in particular is much more difficult on the sort of computers that manufactures deliberately design to be locked down, like modern video game consoles and iOS devices. It is still possible, but has been made sufficiently difficult to stop the majority of the population from doing it.
        throwaway8689 4y ago
        Piracy may have been displaced into Netflix password sharing, or diminished and replaced by bona fide streaming subscriptions (why pirate if you can get what you want at a low price). But falling real incomes and Netflix tightening up on 'free' users could see more pirating.
        irusensei 4y ago
        Plex works on iOS and video game consoles doesn't? You can install VLC or similar software on your iOS device and watch a downloaded mkv. People are often caught when selling or seeding a torrent file, which is easily avoidable by using a VPN or seedbox not by playing a rip of Dune.2020.4k.en.it.h264.mkv on their phone. Piracy has been mitigated through better services at competitive prices offered by the likes of Steam, iTunes, Spotify or how Netflix used to be and not at all by law enforcement.
squarefoot 4y ago
Same as my WRAP boards from a few years earlier, but as with any other device out there, you may indeed protect yourself but have no guarantees the people you're talking to can or will do the same, unless they're privacy conscious and know how to protect themselves. Unfortunately all it takes is one of the endpoints to be compromised. Yours however is still a very valid point on why we should keep at hand an old device from before every chip could contain a backdoor, if only just for texting over serial port, just in case, although this could bring other problems like not having enough power for heavy encryption.

This sort of argument seems similar to "but I can manufacture my own gun in my garage machine shop" That's great for you, but it says little about the ultimate efficacy of a policy on a general population level. Japan's gun ban is generally effective, even though you occasionally have somebody who successfully makes their own homemade gun. And regulation requiring computers to spy on their owners could become generally effective, even if a few people like yourself have the technical know-how and inclination to opt yourself out.

irusensei 4y ago
I don't think such controls on software and data are as enforceable as fire arms. And older router that can run OpenWRT is way easier to procure than a 3d printer or a cnc machine.
- slackdog 4y ago
  Why not? Anybody can make a homemade shotgun with standard tools and hardware store parts, but very few people do. Very few people simultaneously have both the technical know-how and the inclination, therefore gun bans are generally effective by simply banning the easiest and laziest way of getting guns (buying them.) Even people with overt criminal intentions rarely make their own guns. I think the same will likely be true for legally-enforced client side scanning. It is already the case that few people simultaneously have both the knowledge and inclination to "jailbreak" their phones. Throw in stiff legal penalties for doing so and even fewer people will do it. A few people still will, but if most people don't then the ban will still be effective even though it's possible to squeeze through the cracks. In both cases, instructions for circumventing the law may be found online by anybody that cares to look. But most people won't.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - irusensei 4y ago
    Like piracy? It's ilegal and fines are often hefty so shouldn't it deter people from pirating movies or downloading roms etc? I don't think it's a good comparison. It's pretty much unenforceable outside of apple cellphones and very hard to detect.
    - slackdog 4y ago
      > Like piracy? It's ilegal and fines are often hefty so shouldn't it deter people from pirating movies or downloading roms etc? Yes, and it mostly works! Bans on piracy work well already, most people don't torrent games or movies. And locked down platforms exist, demonstrating the technical feasibility of even greater control. Software piracy in particular is much more difficult on the sort of computers that manufactures deliberately design to be locked down, like modern video game consoles and iOS devices. It is still possible, but has been made sufficiently difficult to stop the majority of the population from doing it.
      - throwaway8689 4y ago
        Piracy may have been displaced into Netflix password sharing, or diminished and replaced by bona fide streaming subscriptions (why pirate if you can get what you want at a low price). But falling real incomes and Netflix tightening up on 'free' users could see more pirating.
      - irusensei 4y ago
        Plex works on iOS and video game consoles doesn't? You can install VLC or similar software on your iOS device and watch a downloaded mkv. People are often caught when selling or seeding a torrent file, which is easily avoidable by using a VPN or seedbox not by playing a rip of Dune.2020.4k.en.it.h264.mkv on their phone. Piracy has been mitigated through better services at competitive prices offered by the likes of Steam, iTunes, Spotify or how Netflix used to be and not at all by law enforcement.

squarefoot 4y ago

Same as my WRAP boards from a few years earlier, but as with any other device out there, you may indeed protect yourself but have no guarantees the people you're talking to can or will do the same, unless they're privacy conscious and know how to protect themselves. Unfortunately all it takes is one of the endpoints to be compromised. Yours however is still a very valid point on why we should keep at hand an old device from before every chip could contain a backdoor, if only just for texting over serial port, just in case, although this could bring other problems like not having enough power for heavy encryption.