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My half freetard stallmanian brain says: "I wouldn't mind a law forcing client-side scanning if it affected only proprietary software." The other half of my br

My half freetard stallmanian brain says: "I wouldn't mind a law forcing client-side scanning if it affected only proprietary software." The other half of my brain says: "Indeed... I really need to be able to control which software runs on MY devices."

slackdog 4y ago
As demonstrated by iOS, the technical means to effectively frustrate the installation and use of Free Software already exists. We (the tech industry) have already built the walls of our own prison. All that remains now is for politicians to herd us in and slam the gates shut.
- zirgs 4y ago
  ANd yet - Google is making one of the best phones that can work perfectly fine without any Google software installed. (Pixel series). Nobody forces you to use Apple softeware. I have never owned a single Apple device and never will.
  - slackdog 4y ago
    Nor have I. But I'm afraid you're not getting it. The point is that the technical means for control have already been demonstrated by iOS, not that anybody is forced to use iOS specifically. Governments could require that Google and other manufacturers implement similar controls. The walls of this sort of prison have already been designed and shown to work, all that remains is the political will to herd people in and lock the gates.
    - zirgs 4y ago
      Locked down computing devices existed well before before the iPhone was a thing. Pretty much all gaming consoles are locked down. I'm fine with them existing as long as a non-locked down option is available. And controls like that would mean death to open source OSes like Linux, because you can't develop and test an operating system on a locked down device.
      - slackdog 4y ago
        You're still not getting it. iOS and the locked down game consoles that preceded it all demonstrate the technical feasibility of these controls. All that prevents it is political policy. I didn't say iOS was the first to do it. I didn't say that you are presently forced to buy such devices. And I certainly didn't say that desktop Linux would survive the sort of totalitarianism the tech industry has invented the means to implement. You're missing the point so severely that it's hard for me to understand where my explanations could be falling short. Are you trying to get a rise out of me?
        int_19h 4y ago
        The other thing that iOS demonstrated is that not only it is technically feasible, it is also socially feasible - to the point where the majority of people willingly use such devices in some countries.
  - pantalaimon 4y ago
    It’s cool if you can still install your open source messenger of choice, but whom are you going to message if all messengers that don’t have client side scanning enabled are banned from the official app stores?
legrande 4y ago
> I really need to be able to control which software runs on MY devices Well if you're running an Intel powered device, there is the Intel Management Engine[0], which is a minus ring zero backdoor with unfettered access to everything. It even runs MINIX! It's not really your computer. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine
- fsflover 4y ago
  Fortunately, Intel ME is disabled and then neutralized on my Librem 15.
  - beebeepka 4y ago
    Weird. The system reports that you're still connected and the beacon is functioning normally.
    - fsflover 4y ago
      Your system is designed very well if it has such functionality with only 360KB of code [0]. [0] https://puri.sm/posts/deep-dive-into-intel-me-disablement/ https://puri.sm/posts/deep-dive-into-intel-me-disablement/

slackdog 4y ago

As demonstrated by iOS, the technical means to effectively frustrate the installation and use of Free Software already exists. We (the tech industry) have already built the walls of our own prison. All that remains now is for politicians to herd us in and slam the gates shut.

zirgs 4y ago
ANd yet - Google is making one of the best phones that can work perfectly fine without any Google software installed. (Pixel series). Nobody forces you to use Apple softeware. I have never owned a single Apple device and never will.
- slackdog 4y ago
  Nor have I. But I'm afraid you're not getting it. The point is that the technical means for control have already been demonstrated by iOS, not that anybody is forced to use iOS specifically. Governments could require that Google and other manufacturers implement similar controls. The walls of this sort of prison have already been designed and shown to work, all that remains is the political will to herd people in and lock the gates.
  - zirgs 4y ago
    Locked down computing devices existed well before before the iPhone was a thing. Pretty much all gaming consoles are locked down. I'm fine with them existing as long as a non-locked down option is available. And controls like that would mean death to open source OSes like Linux, because you can't develop and test an operating system on a locked down device.
    - slackdog 4y ago
      You're still not getting it. iOS and the locked down game consoles that preceded it all demonstrate the technical feasibility of these controls. All that prevents it is political policy. I didn't say iOS was the first to do it. I didn't say that you are presently forced to buy such devices. And I certainly didn't say that desktop Linux would survive the sort of totalitarianism the tech industry has invented the means to implement. You're missing the point so severely that it's hard for me to understand where my explanations could be falling short. Are you trying to get a rise out of me?
      - int_19h 4y ago
        The other thing that iOS demonstrated is that not only it is technically feasible, it is also socially feasible - to the point where the majority of people willingly use such devices in some countries.
- pantalaimon 4y ago
  It’s cool if you can still install your open source messenger of choice, but whom are you going to message if all messengers that don’t have client side scanning enabled are banned from the official app stores?

legrande 4y ago

> I really need to be able to control which software runs on MY devices Well if you're running an Intel powered device, there is the Intel Management Engine[0], which is a minus ring zero backdoor with unfettered access to everything. It even runs MINIX! It's not really your computer. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine

fsflover 4y ago
Fortunately, Intel ME is disabled and then neutralized on my Librem 15.
- beebeepka 4y ago
  Weird. The system reports that you're still connected and the beacon is functioning normally.
  - fsflover 4y ago
    Your system is designed very well if it has such functionality with only 360KB of code [0]. [0] https://puri.sm/posts/deep-dive-into-intel-me-disablement/ https://puri.sm/posts/deep-dive-into-intel-me-disablement/