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> approaching a point in time of unverifiable reality and truth Malicious groups spreading misinformation to destabilize society has been a thing since at leas

by WJW 4y ago

> approaching a point in time of unverifiable reality and truth Malicious groups spreading misinformation to destabilize society has been a thing since at least the ancient Greeks. Unverifiable reality has been the topic of religious debate for centuries as well. The recent language models are cool but they are not better at lying than humans.

13years 4y ago
They have never such power to do so convincingly with such little effort. Yes, it has always been a problem, but no where close to the extent it is about to become.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  >> Malicious groups spreading misinformation to destabilize society has been a thing since at least the ancient Greeks. Unverifiable reality has been the topic of religious debate for centuries as well. The recent language models are cool but they are not better at lying than humans. > They have never such power to do so convincingly with such little effort. Yes, it has always been a problem, but no where close to the extent it is about to become. And at such scale. The annoying pro-tech trope of "the ancient Greeks had problems sort of like this, so these problems aren't new (so they're not problems), so full speed ahead" refuses to acknowledge how technology has drastically changed things and how we should judge technology using the previous situation as a reference, not the situation 2000 years ago. A long time ago, everyone had to be pretty mistrustful of strangers, and spend a lot energy avoiding lies and cheating (to the point of tolerating a high false positive rate). Relatively recently, society changed in ways that allowed people to reap the benefits of letting their guard down and trust strangers to a large degree (reduced effort, greater efficiency and effectiveness). Now we might be reverting back to the original condition, which is a bad thing.
  - 13years 4y ago
    Indeed. I often question the logic of containing an ASI and most of the time the best a proponent can offer is that "we will figure it out". I counter that your entire premise is based on a paradox, a logical contradiction. I never get a response to this other than to side step. I finally put all of my thoughts into a publication on the matter and have attempted to solicit a strong argument that would counter my view points, but as of yet I have not received any. https://dakara.substack.com/p/ai-singularity-the-hubris-trap https://dakara.substack.com/p/ai-singularity-the-hubris-trap
pixl97 4y ago
Bullshit asymmetry theory asks the question of 'is quantity a quality of its own' Way back when those Greeks that were misinforming you had to eat sleep and shit at some point. You're making a statement about current language models while the tech industry is rapidly grinding away at making newer better models and applying an ever expanding amount of compute resources for it to run on. What are the limits here, how many misinformation bots can exist in this environment? Welcome to the 'dead internet prophecy'.
arbitrary_name 4y ago
They substantially lower the costs of generating and distributing misinformation. They also enable use cases like individualized misinformation like never before. I totally disagree with you.

by WJW 4y ago

13years 4y ago

They have never such power to do so convincingly with such little effort. Yes, it has always been a problem, but no where close to the extent it is about to become.

tablespoon 4y ago
>> Malicious groups spreading misinformation to destabilize society has been a thing since at least the ancient Greeks. Unverifiable reality has been the topic of religious debate for centuries as well. The recent language models are cool but they are not better at lying than humans. > They have never such power to do so convincingly with such little effort. Yes, it has always been a problem, but no where close to the extent it is about to become. And at such scale. The annoying pro-tech trope of "the ancient Greeks had problems sort of like this, so these problems aren't new (so they're not problems), so full speed ahead" refuses to acknowledge how technology has drastically changed things and how we should judge technology using the previous situation as a reference, not the situation 2000 years ago. A long time ago, everyone had to be pretty mistrustful of strangers, and spend a lot energy avoiding lies and cheating (to the point of tolerating a high false positive rate). Relatively recently, society changed in ways that allowed people to reap the benefits of letting their guard down and trust strangers to a large degree (reduced effort, greater efficiency and effectiveness). Now we might be reverting back to the original condition, which is a bad thing.
- 13years 4y ago
  Indeed. I often question the logic of containing an ASI and most of the time the best a proponent can offer is that "we will figure it out". I counter that your entire premise is based on a paradox, a logical contradiction. I never get a response to this other than to side step. I finally put all of my thoughts into a publication on the matter and have attempted to solicit a strong argument that would counter my view points, but as of yet I have not received any. https://dakara.substack.com/p/ai-singularity-the-hubris-trap https://dakara.substack.com/p/ai-singularity-the-hubris-trap

pixl97 4y ago

Bullshit asymmetry theory asks the question of 'is quantity a quality of its own' Way back when those Greeks that were misinforming you had to eat sleep and shit at some point. You're making a statement about current language models while the tech industry is rapidly grinding away at making newer better models and applying an ever expanding amount of compute resources for it to run on. What are the limits here, how many misinformation bots can exist in this environment? Welcome to the 'dead internet prophecy'.

arbitrary_name 4y ago

They substantially lower the costs of generating and distributing misinformation. They also enable use cases like individualized misinformation like never before. I totally disagree with you.