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The things first time founders do…
- MartinMond 15y agoComing from the hardcore developer side I saw myself in some of those, especially in They do mental incest by bouncing ideas off the same people every time. They have no clue about their market. They confuse certain customer assumptions with facts. I'd like to add one that hit me especially hard They turn their sleep cycle into crap due to poor planning and for arbitrary deadlines It's actually strange that it took Eric Ries' to get verification/falsification into the wider Startup echo chamber. Engineers should know better :)
- andreasklinger 15y agoPlease share your things you did or notice with first time founders here… I am happy to extend the list ;)
- manmal 15y agoSome things in this list hurt me, because I'm affected - however, the one about "social and/or marketplace startup" seems a bit broad. Could you elaborate on that?
- andreasklinger 15y agoWhile doing a social software startup that goes into the direction of a marketplace i noticed one thing: Social Startups are the hardest to do because they usually rely on the critical mass of interaction and network density within the community. Basicially you are relying on other people to do your job of creating content. The only thing that is harder is doing an marketplace, because in a market place you not only need network density you also rely on them selling the content. They usually have a high upside if they work. The problem is to get them to work. And for some reason they are highly attractive to first time founders - like me back then.
- manmal 15y agoOk, so it's the chicken-egg problem combined with too much schlepp. What do you think of marketplaces where, initially, the founders create all the content for sale?
- andreasklinger 15y agoMarketplaces are awesome startups and make a lot of sense. There are patterns to start right. Here is one of the best posts about it: http://blog.asmartbear.com/marketplace-business-model.html http://blog.asmartbear.com/marketplace-business-model.html (thx to @lfittl)
- keeptrying 15y agoHow many marketplace startups are started by first time founders? I am also doing a marketplace startup. I have validated the need but well We will never know till I launch. There is something about marketplaces that actually make them seem attractive.
- danhill 15y agoGreat post Andreas. Regarding marketplace startups, I put together a post yesterday about that side of things: http://danhilltech.tumblr.com/post/16293051293/at-crashpadder-weve-been-working-on-a http://danhilltech.tumblr.com/post/16293051293/at-crashpadde...
- aik 15y agoThey keep coding, refactoring, and adding features because they don't know what else to do. It's all they know.
- revorad 15y agoThey create some of the greatest companies and businesses the world has ever seen. Let's not forget that one.
- andreasklinger 15y agolove that one :)
- anthonyb 15y agoThey pick twitter hashtags which are double entendres :)
- Tim-Boss 15y agoI giggled at #foundersexchange too... ...but it is Monday morning, so I haven't woken up properly yet!
- OoTheNigerian 15y agoThey make sure their app 'can scale' before launching for the first time.
- hncirclejerk 15y agoYes, let us do improve your nonsense for free!
- floris 15y agoI'd like to point out that these days it's perfectly fine to have a GmbH as your company structure for international investments.
- sashthebash 15y agoDo you have anything to prove this? (Running a German company myself, just curious)
- lfittl 15y agoHe's the co-founder of Gidsy, who just raised from Ashton Kutcher & Index Ventures http://www.crunchbase.com/company/gidsy http://www.crunchbase.com/company/gidsy
- hncirclejerking 15y agoWow, then he must be a fucking genius!
- andreasklinger 15y agoI'd love to agree. Can you please provide proof for that. I only experienced the complete opposite. Even if it was "ok" it would have lowered our upside by a percentage on the long run.
- Iroiso 15y agoWhat do you think is the ideal way to structure your international startup then? I'm thinking about how to go about this now?
- lfittl 15y agoFor Europeans: Create a UK Ltd holding company, and a local entity for each country you operate in. Happy to answer specific questions by email (we're UK Ltd holding with local AT GmbH) You can also save that local entity by moving the UK Ltd into your country and registering it in the local company registry (EU only) - great article on how to do this: http://www.internetszene.at/2009/03/31/checkliste-limited-oder-gmbh/ http://www.internetszene.at/2009/03/31/checkliste-limited-od... (German, unfortunately)
- zbowling 15y agoThis sums up my attempt doing my own startup with my cofounder last year perfectly. We did our YC interview and got a reality check. Did about half these things.
- Brajeshwar 15y agoJumping too soon at Partnership deals and thinking that the other parties are better than you!
- skrish 15y agoThey debate endlessly about getting 'enough' customers who may need a feature instead of talking to potential customers and actually finding out. :)
- andreasklinger 15y agoI agree. they jump the first one, the first 10, first 100 and worry about the first 1000 ;)
- adsahay 15y agoThey waste time and energy optimizing their code and architecture for a million users, when they only have a 100.
- rokhayakebe 15y agoI know someone who spent days and weeks worrying about this. "But, Rokhaya, millions of people will come to the site so .....". Needless to say the site is still on http://localhost/ http://localhost/
- mmahemoff 15y agoLooking forward to the Failboat event, added it on Lanyrd: http://lanyrd.com/2012/failboat-february/ http://lanyrd.com/2012/failboat-february/
- lamby 15y agoThe "agree? tweet this" link next to every singleee item in the list rather devalues the whole thing.
- joelg87 15y agoTrue, but I like the idea. I think a better way to do it would be to make the item itself a link with alt text "Tweet this".
- andreasklinger 15y agoYea you are right. I prefer that approach. On it.
- amirmc 15y agoYes, it seems to "cheapen" the post and make it feel like a marketing ploy. FWIW the post didn't start off that way. Links were added on the suggestion of a reader. https://twitter.com/#!/serenestudios/status/161382914532184064 https://twitter.com/#!/serenestudios/status/1613829145321840...
- tbsdy 15y agoPersonally, that hashtag is so unfortunately awesome that I'm going to use it at every opportunity! #foundersexchange
- yjsoon 15y agoThat'd be a good addition to the list: They desperately try to increase their social media footprint. (Agree? Vote this!)* * Irony
- JMStewy 15y agoI appreciate founders sharing their experiences like this, but I feel like most of this list suffers from premature generalization. Especially if these are lessons learned the hard way, I'd rather hear more of a "war story". Some, like "They plan details about sh*t that never sees the light of day" are quite self-sufficient, but some of the others are pretty vague or even come across as contradictory. "They seek too much advice from too many sources with too many conflicting views" but also "They do mental incest by bouncing ideas off the same people every time"? I know that different founders make different mistakes, but I'm still in the dark on how to find the happy middle. For ones like that, or "They have no clue about their market", I want to hear what happened! What's the story behind the advice? I know that this is beyond the scope of a list like this, but maybe it could be fodder for some future blog posts.
- iusable 15y agoI agree! Some of the things are even contradictory from what you hear in the Lean Startup echo chamber now. They would make a ton more sense if they carried examples or some sort of 'war story'. I started a new thread just last night for this - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3498421 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3498421 - Bootstrapped Consumer Web Startup Stories? #Win and #Fail. I am not sure how to get this conversation started, but I really would love to hear from the community on HN.
- amirmc 15y agoWhy would you expect them to not be contradictory? People will have made mistakes on both sides (and the author may have made them both within the same startup too). I agree that it's difficult to generalise but the utility of a list this comes from the introspection it can provoke. "Am I talking to too many people?" "Am I following vanity metrics?" "Am I planning details that matter?"
- andreasklinger 15y agoHey! Awesome. I am happy to share details on single warstories and how to avoid them. I just wanted to get this bulk of my chest first :)
- iusable 15y agoThe two that really stuck out for me personally - They underestimate everything apart of one thing: Themselves. They don’t get that a low burnrate and being prelaunch doesn’t mean you have more time to waste.
- tbsdy 15y agoNothing like the founders discussing their change of gender on #foundersexchange.
- andreasklinger 15y agoIt is the best hashtag ever. Blame @robfitz ;)
- janus 15y agoThey are missing an underscore there... #founder_sex_ehh... #founders_exchange
- vide0star 15y agoThis is too general to be helpful. I think it's dangerous to try to distill entrepreneurship to a few bullet points of advice. Starting a company is complicated and nuanced. It takes years of hardwork. It's great to pass on experience of failures or successes, but would be better served in a more detailed format so it can be useful.
- shin_lao 15y agoThey found an “GmbH, SARL, OOD, DOO, LTDa, A, BVO, Sp. Zoo, SRO, TAA or OOO” and wonder why international VCs don’t bother If people want to invest in your company, its legal form is of little importance. Changing the legal structure for a small company isn't a problem and any serious VC can even help you with that. I never heard of someone not investing in a company because it didn't have the proper legal form.
- jonnathanson 15y agoI think the broader point (I think?) is that first-time founders often run off to consult with a lawyer right out of the gate. As a result, they'll spend thousands of dollars, and lots of time, protecting themselves from imaginary legal threats -- time and dollars that should have been allocated to product development at this stage in the game. If, at the moment, your startup consists of the proverbial two guys in a garage, it's highly unlikely that you need to spend $10,000+ on a lawyer's counsel and advice. Build your product first. You're not even on the radar yet, so it's not as if Google or Facebook even know who you are, let alone want to steal your idea. And chances are, someone's doing your idea anyhow. Chances are, ten people are doing your idea right now. Your best defense isn't legal action; it's product traction. There's a time and a place for lawyers, but right up front is usually not it. Unless you've got some sort of truly innovative, groundbreaking technological innovation on your hands.
- mgkimsal 15y ago"There's a time and a place for lawyers, but right up front is usually not it. Unless you've got some sort of truly innovative, groundbreaking technological innovation on your hands." The bigger problem I see is that many people actually think they've got something innovative, unique, groundbreaking or patentable. A "social network for dog lovers" is probably not patentable, certainly not that unique or groundbreaking, and none of it matters without execution and a userbase (ideally of paying customers). But I run in to many people who fret way too much over "how can I protect my (one and only) idea?!!" We need have a "Founder's Daily Prayer": "God grant me the wisdom to execute on the mundane aspects of my business, legal protection for the truly innovative and patentable aspects of my business, and the wisdom to discern between the two".
- phzbOx 15y agoHacking for 6 months before releasing a mvp before getting in touch with real customers.
- rglover 15y agoThis is kind of a bummer. As a first time founder, it's not really helpful to read a list of things that you may be doing wrong (especially when there is no mention of a correct path to take - you're simply led to believe that you should do the opposite). Another point of contention was: We have been working on our Startup for 3 years now and there were more reasons that it should have collapsed than I can think of. Is it possible that actually making these mistakes is how you get better? I'm all for primers and advice, but something is missing here.
- andreasklinger 15y agoFirst of all sorry if the list is not helpful. Kinda hoped for people like you to find santiy-checks for their current process in there. Regarding your point about making mistakes: I assume the truth is inbetween. As said it's harder for me to give advice "what works" because stuff that works is usually more specific. But i will try in future to rather focus on actionable stuff that works instead of warning signs
- rglover 15y agoAs far as "sanity-checks," I feel like you've accomplished this. When I see lists like these, though, I hope there's something I can chew on; a couple of sentences that further articulate the point being made (this may be a personal thing, but it helps me to really "get" the point). There's nothing wrong with warning signs, but warning signs aren't necessarily what you're doing wrong (rather, just a hint that you might be).
- DrorY 15y agoI am sorry but this seems somewhat contradictory: (i)They are arrogant and ignorant to any feedback they don’t want to hear. (ii) They seek too much advice from too many sources with too many conflicting views. Seeking advice is the opposite of being arrogant, and if seeking advice is a mistake it's only because you listen to too much of it, thus making you too responsive to other people's thoughts, not ignorant towards them.
- andreasklinger 15y agoAgree. The second was added by suggestions. But to be honest. Although contradicting. Both happend to me.
- DrorY 15y agowell perhaps these are different phases. At first when you're looking for an idea you are looking for good advice, but once you've set your mind on something there's no need to hear anything discouraging. There are enough reasons why things won't work, I don't need to hear them.
- mgkimsal 15y agoit's somewhat contradictory but not entirely so. I've seen this with people I've consulted with. They'll get advice from 12 people, and ignore the advice from 9 of them because they don't agree with it, then go ask another 5-10 people for more advice to confirm the original 3.
- benihana 15y agoI don't think the list is meant to be read as "every first time startup founder does all of these" but rather, "be vigilant of some of these patterns."
- surfmike 15y agoWhy is "They launch in one month." a mistake? Aren't startups advised to launch early, then iterate? Unless he's implying that waiting a month is too long...
- andreasklinger 15y agobecause it's never in "one month". This one month becomes half a year…
- kyt 15y agoRead hacker news all day and don't actually work on their startup.
- tosh 15y agoGreat write up & many phrases that sound very very familiar :)
- daylonsoh 15y agoguilty for some points. Glad, we moved on.