5 ms·

A lot of commenters have talked about the pros of this routine, and there are many. Few interruptions, working while your mind is fresh, working within a regim

by nhashem 15y ago

A lot of commenters have talked about the pros of this routine, and there are many. Few interruptions, working while your mind is fresh, working within a regimen, etc. However, if you don't have an equivalent amount of discipline on at night to get enough rest, you will quickly burn yourself out. I did this routine for a lot of the second half of 2011, and since I'm a night owl by nature (going to bed at 12 midnight is 'earlyish' for me), the lack of sleep quickly caught up with me. My project was actually getting some traction though, so I basically spent about four months in a sleep-deprived haze and consuming about 400 mg of caffeine a day just to function. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you're like me and you go to bed at 1AM, wake up at 9AM, and go into work at 10AM (a very common engineer schedule), then it's not just a case of setting of your alarm clock but really adjusting your lifestyle so you're not fundamentally sleep-depriving yourself.

rrohan189 15y ago
Cannot agree more. Well said.
chris_dcosta 15y ago
I'm a nihgt owl with kids. I've been living on the 1am to 6:30 express(o) train for the last 5 years, holding down a job too. It can be done, but you have to let yourself give-in sometimes. I hit a wall every three months or so and have one day where I crash at about 7:30 pm sleeping the whole night through. That's enough to recharge my batteries. Did I mention I'm no spring chicken either...
- notyourwork 15y ago
  I can say from watching my father do this while I grew up that this is extremely unhealthy on the body. Sure you can do it, sure you can recharge every few many months but this will not work out in the long run. By that I mean accidents are looming when you live with this little sleep regularly. Trust me on this before its too late to say I wish I would have slept more.
  - planetmcd 15y ago
    There is strong evidence that links sleep deprivation over time, even minor, to long term health problems. As someone who cut sleep for years (6 hours was normal in twenties and much of thirties), I can attest that at some point, it becomes difficult to operate on less sleep. If all of your coping strategies involve putting in more time (essentially at the expense of sleep), when you can no longer cut the sleep, you may be in a bind when that is no longer the corner that can be cut. Though not always, that point in time often coincides with when your parental commitments are at their peek as well, and as a parent, you probably shouldn't cut that corner. So what then... Something like the Pomodoro method helped me alot. Or just be really rich.
steelaz 15y ago
You couldn't bring yourself to sleep before midnight even when waking up at 5am on regular basis? I consider myself night owl too, nowadays I fall asleep at around 1am. But I used to work in construction, getting up at 5:30am every day and just after couple weeks of this routine, I would fall asleep at 10:00pm - 10:30pm, usually while watching TV :)
- starwed 15y ago
  >I used to work in construction This is why you were able to fall asleep! If I get up early (~6am) in the morning, my body just doesn't seem to care -- I won't fall asleep (or even feel truly tired) until about 2am. Unless I actually do something physically taxing during the day.
- beagle3 15y ago
  I'm a night owl, and a few decades agoI was on a rigid Army training schedule for months at a time, where we would be released for the night around 1am-2am and already have roll call at 6:30am; I would still not fall asleep until 3-4 am. (This was not physical training, although we did do a short physical exercise daily, and a an hour long one three times a week) My pre-army reserves carried me through the first 3 months, and then I would just uncontrollably crash for 20-30 minutes at lunch time. My eyesight deteriorated significantly (much improved after I started getting some sleep again, thankfully, but not as good as it used to be, unfortunately) and I'm sure my body was otherwise harmed, although I did have more waking hours than at any other time I can remember.
eloisius 15y ago
You should try taking 5mg of melatonin around 9pm. I have trouble falling asleep before 12-1am, too. Undeterred, I stay up too late every night working on whatever project I have and can't sleep because I'll lay awake thinking about it. If I take a melatonin I get the benefit of becoming inept at writing code by 10 and will be sound asleep before 11 and ready to wake up hours before I have to start my day.
- pstuart 15y ago
  My sleep doctor advised taking less, and earlier (1.5 mg around 5 or 6 pm).
  - polyfractal 15y ago
    This is good advice. Taking melatonin when you go to bed will help you sleep, but taking it a few hours before you want to go to bed helps retrain your circadian cycle (which is the goal, not just going to sleep easily)
    - whimsy 15y ago
      Do you have a source you can cite for this? I'm keenly interested in how this works.
      - hobin 15y ago
        I suggest reading this: http://www.medicinenet.com/jet_lag/page4.htm http://www.medicinenet.com/jet_lag/page4.htm
  - gbog 15y ago
    You have sleep doctors in the US? seriously?
    - pmiller2 15y ago
      Yeah. Sleep medicine is a subfield of neurology.
tomkarlo 15y ago
The caffeine is a vicious cycle (I've been there.) When you're short on sleep, you need it to get through the day, but the side effect is you end up staying up later than you need to. Also, if you want to get to sleep, avoid screens (TV, computer) for the last hour or two before bedtime and you'll find it's a lot easier (E-ink readers like the Kindle are great for this.) It's hard to switch gears from the stimulation of TV or a game and go to sleep unless you're already overtired. A lot of this also depends on age, I suspect... I used to be a 1AM-type person in my 20s but as I've grown older, I find I naturally wake up at 7 AM or so anyway. By 11pm or so, I'm geting pretty useless. My sense is this happens to lots of folks as they get into their mid-30s, even if they don't have kids.
- BCM43 15y ago
  Also, if you want to get to sleep, avoid screens (TV, computer) for the last hour or two before bedtime and you'll find it's a lot easier Is there evidence for this? I've heard it's true, and it seems to be from my personal experience, but I've never seen any kind of a study of it.
  - chrisdroukas 15y ago
    I'm not sure about the two hour timespan, but brightness appears to have an effect on sleep latency and the time it takes to fall asleep. Studies [edit: PDFs]: [1] http://www.journalsleep.org/Articles/250312.pdf http://www.journalsleep.org/Articles/250312.pdf [2] http://www.sciencesleep.org/ziliao/Effects%20of%20playing%20a%20computer%20game%20using%20a%20bright%20display%20on%20presleep%20physiological%20variables,%20sleep%20latency,%20slow%20wave%20sleep%20and%20REM%20sleep.pdf http://www.sciencesleep.org/ziliao/Effects%20of%20playing%20... [3] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2869.2005.00463.x/pdf http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2869.2005....
    - polyfractal 15y ago
      Definitely install F.lux: http://stereopsis.com/flux/ http://stereopsis.com/flux/ It adjusts the color temperature of your monitor as the sun goes down. As the sun sets, your monitor becomes more red/pink. It takes a little while to get used to it, but I absolutely cannot stand normal monitors at night time now. When I occasionally disable F.lux to watch a movie at night, I'm blinded by the bright blue glow.
brown9-2 15y ago
Just curious, but how much coffee is 400 mg of Caffeine? This would seem to be 2-4 regular size cups of coffee (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/caffeine/AN01211 http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/caffeine/AN01211).
- notaddicted 15y ago
  Starbucks lists caffeine per drink which I think is a good universal reference point. 400mg is 20oz, i.e. a Venti, http://www.starbucks.com/menu/drinks/brewed-coffee/pikes-place-roast?foodZone=9999#size=121965 http://www.starbucks.com/menu/drinks/brewed-coffee/pikes-pla... .
ryanmolden 15y ago
Coincidentally enough I just started reading The Way We're Working Isn't Working and this one of the arguments he makes (i.e. that we tend to run ourselves ragged by trying to work longer and longer hours to 'be more productive', when it usually results in just the opposite). I can definitely attest to the fact that my periods of greatest productivity tend to come in spurts as the book talks about (sprints of say 90 or so minutes of highly concentrated work) as opposed to being the result of long slogs of say 10 hours of coding, which tends to produce volumes of code, but not necessarily my best code. Good book so far (http://www.amazon.com/Way-Were-Working-Isnt-Performance/dp/1439127662 http://www.amazon.com/Way-Were-Working-Isnt-Performance/dp/1...).
nihaar 15y ago
Agreed on the cons. I've tried this as well for a while and it does require a huge change in lifestyle. My gym time was cut down to nothing as I would usually get up and hit the gym prior to work (going to the gym in the evenings is very tough for me). So although my sleep time was the same (I was still going to bed and waking up at the same time as before), by taking out my gym routine, I was actually feeling more tired, down and otherwise less alert. So I've been playing with alternating work/gym during the weekday mornings.

by nhashem 15y ago

rrohan189 15y ago

Cannot agree more. Well said.

chris_dcosta 15y ago

I'm a nihgt owl with kids. I've been living on the 1am to 6:30 express(o) train for the last 5 years, holding down a job too. It can be done, but you have to let yourself give-in sometimes. I hit a wall every three months or so and have one day where I crash at about 7:30 pm sleeping the whole night through. That's enough to recharge my batteries. Did I mention I'm no spring chicken either...

notyourwork 15y ago
I can say from watching my father do this while I grew up that this is extremely unhealthy on the body. Sure you can do it, sure you can recharge every few many months but this will not work out in the long run. By that I mean accidents are looming when you live with this little sleep regularly. Trust me on this before its too late to say I wish I would have slept more.
- planetmcd 15y ago
  There is strong evidence that links sleep deprivation over time, even minor, to long term health problems. As someone who cut sleep for years (6 hours was normal in twenties and much of thirties), I can attest that at some point, it becomes difficult to operate on less sleep. If all of your coping strategies involve putting in more time (essentially at the expense of sleep), when you can no longer cut the sleep, you may be in a bind when that is no longer the corner that can be cut. Though not always, that point in time often coincides with when your parental commitments are at their peek as well, and as a parent, you probably shouldn't cut that corner. So what then... Something like the Pomodoro method helped me alot. Or just be really rich.

steelaz 15y ago

You couldn't bring yourself to sleep before midnight even when waking up at 5am on regular basis? I consider myself night owl too, nowadays I fall asleep at around 1am. But I used to work in construction, getting up at 5:30am every day and just after couple weeks of this routine, I would fall asleep at 10:00pm - 10:30pm, usually while watching TV :)

starwed 15y ago
>I used to work in construction This is why you were able to fall asleep! If I get up early (~6am) in the morning, my body just doesn't seem to care -- I won't fall asleep (or even feel truly tired) until about 2am. Unless I actually do something physically taxing during the day.
beagle3 15y ago
I'm a night owl, and a few decades agoI was on a rigid Army training schedule for months at a time, where we would be released for the night around 1am-2am and already have roll call at 6:30am; I would still not fall asleep until 3-4 am. (This was not physical training, although we did do a short physical exercise daily, and a an hour long one three times a week) My pre-army reserves carried me through the first 3 months, and then I would just uncontrollably crash for 20-30 minutes at lunch time. My eyesight deteriorated significantly (much improved after I started getting some sleep again, thankfully, but not as good as it used to be, unfortunately) and I'm sure my body was otherwise harmed, although I did have more waking hours than at any other time I can remember.

eloisius 15y ago

You should try taking 5mg of melatonin around 9pm. I have trouble falling asleep before 12-1am, too. Undeterred, I stay up too late every night working on whatever project I have and can't sleep because I'll lay awake thinking about it. If I take a melatonin I get the benefit of becoming inept at writing code by 10 and will be sound asleep before 11 and ready to wake up hours before I have to start my day.

pstuart 15y ago
My sleep doctor advised taking less, and earlier (1.5 mg around 5 or 6 pm).
- polyfractal 15y ago
  This is good advice. Taking melatonin when you go to bed will help you sleep, but taking it a few hours before you want to go to bed helps retrain your circadian cycle (which is the goal, not just going to sleep easily)
  - whimsy 15y ago
    Do you have a source you can cite for this? I'm keenly interested in how this works.
    - hobin 15y ago
      I suggest reading this: http://www.medicinenet.com/jet_lag/page4.htm http://www.medicinenet.com/jet_lag/page4.htm
- gbog 15y ago
  You have sleep doctors in the US? seriously?
  - pmiller2 15y ago
    Yeah. Sleep medicine is a subfield of neurology.

tomkarlo 15y ago

The caffeine is a vicious cycle (I've been there.) When you're short on sleep, you need it to get through the day, but the side effect is you end up staying up later than you need to. Also, if you want to get to sleep, avoid screens (TV, computer) for the last hour or two before bedtime and you'll find it's a lot easier (E-ink readers like the Kindle are great for this.) It's hard to switch gears from the stimulation of TV or a game and go to sleep unless you're already overtired. A lot of this also depends on age, I suspect... I used to be a 1AM-type person in my 20s but as I've grown older, I find I naturally wake up at 7 AM or so anyway. By 11pm or so, I'm geting pretty useless. My sense is this happens to lots of folks as they get into their mid-30s, even if they don't have kids.

BCM43 15y ago
Also, if you want to get to sleep, avoid screens (TV, computer) for the last hour or two before bedtime and you'll find it's a lot easier Is there evidence for this? I've heard it's true, and it seems to be from my personal experience, but I've never seen any kind of a study of it.
- chrisdroukas 15y ago
  I'm not sure about the two hour timespan, but brightness appears to have an effect on sleep latency and the time it takes to fall asleep. Studies [edit: PDFs]: [1] http://www.journalsleep.org/Articles/250312.pdf http://www.journalsleep.org/Articles/250312.pdf [2] http://www.sciencesleep.org/ziliao/Effects%20of%20playing%20a%20computer%20game%20using%20a%20bright%20display%20on%20presleep%20physiological%20variables,%20sleep%20latency,%20slow%20wave%20sleep%20and%20REM%20sleep.pdf http://www.sciencesleep.org/ziliao/Effects%20of%20playing%20... [3] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2869.2005.00463.x/pdf http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2869.2005....
  - polyfractal 15y ago
    Definitely install F.lux: http://stereopsis.com/flux/ http://stereopsis.com/flux/ It adjusts the color temperature of your monitor as the sun goes down. As the sun sets, your monitor becomes more red/pink. It takes a little while to get used to it, but I absolutely cannot stand normal monitors at night time now. When I occasionally disable F.lux to watch a movie at night, I'm blinded by the bright blue glow.

brown9-2 15y ago

Just curious, but how much coffee is 400 mg of Caffeine? This would seem to be 2-4 regular size cups of coffee (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/caffeine/AN01211 http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/caffeine/AN01211).

notaddicted 15y ago
Starbucks lists caffeine per drink which I think is a good universal reference point. 400mg is 20oz, i.e. a Venti, http://www.starbucks.com/menu/drinks/brewed-coffee/pikes-place-roast?foodZone=9999#size=121965 http://www.starbucks.com/menu/drinks/brewed-coffee/pikes-pla... .

ryanmolden 15y ago

Coincidentally enough I just started reading The Way We're Working Isn't Working and this one of the arguments he makes (i.e. that we tend to run ourselves ragged by trying to work longer and longer hours to 'be more productive', when it usually results in just the opposite). I can definitely attest to the fact that my periods of greatest productivity tend to come in spurts as the book talks about (sprints of say 90 or so minutes of highly concentrated work) as opposed to being the result of long slogs of say 10 hours of coding, which tends to produce volumes of code, but not necessarily my best code. Good book so far (http://www.amazon.com/Way-Were-Working-Isnt-Performance/dp/1439127662 http://www.amazon.com/Way-Were-Working-Isnt-Performance/dp/1...).

nihaar 15y ago

Agreed on the cons. I've tried this as well for a while and it does require a huge change in lifestyle. My gym time was cut down to nothing as I would usually get up and hit the gym prior to work (going to the gym in the evenings is very tough for me). So although my sleep time was the same (I was still going to bed and waking up at the same time as before), by taking out my gym routine, I was actually feeling more tired, down and otherwise less alert. So I've been playing with alternating work/gym during the weekday mornings.