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It's tricky. I agree thay phones are phenomenal distraction, but, they can be used for good or evil. Until fairly recently, I got extremely dirty looks or even

It's tricky. I agree thay phones are phenomenal distraction, but, they can be used for good or evil. Until fairly recently, I got extremely dirty looks or even a talk from my boss, for bringing a laptop into a meeting. It was of course fine to bring your notepad and pen, but I type about 10 times faster than I write, and I can actually read it later. It ends up just being Luddite discrimination. A few times I tried taking notes on a phone. It's always with me, the notes are electronically connected, but prejudice of me "not paying attention" was too strong to overcome (even though I'd send structured and summarized notes to everyone). So in turn I've developed this weird distaste of notebooks and their (over-)privileged status in our society :-D

ricardobeat 4y ago
90% of the time people will use their laptops to look at instant messaging, forums, emails, or event try to get some work done. So your boss is not wrong. You might wanna get an iPad as it is, at least for the moment, socially acceptable in meetings, even with the keyboard cover :)
- NikolaNovak 4y ago
  You're not wrong that it's more socially acceptable. It's insane though. IPad is fundamentally a media consumption device. I'm a touchless, fast, organized typer on my laptop (I used to be primary screensharer when I was ops manager). All that socially acceptable iPad would do is handicap me severely :-/
  - piaste 4y ago
    If you can type touchless, try putting the laptop off to the side, and typing your notes without looking at the screen. The presenter might feel much less ignored if he still has your eye contact.
    - bathtub365 4y ago
      If they can type touchless their laptop doesn’t even need to be within arms length.
      - Robin_Message 4y ago
        Bluetooth keyboard and leave your laptop on your desk.
    - NikolaNovak 4y ago
      Yup; it's what I do now that I'm remote - I look directly into the camera while I type :). Alternatively, I screenshare so everybody sees / benefits from the notes.
- jen20 4y ago
  > even try to get some work done. The horror of trying to do something productive at work… My guess is most of the gains in productivity during COVID are people not paying attention in pointless meetings and doing real work instead of placating socialites’ ego-driven meglomania.
- hiq 4y ago
  > 90% of the time people will use their laptops to look at instant messaging, forums, emails, or even try to get some work done. So your boss is not wrong. > even try to get some work done I assume it's not what you meant, but it's interesting nonetheless: if being in this meeting does not mean getting work done, maybe the real problem mandatory attendance?
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    I think a well-known problem with meetings is that most of the time, no meaningful work can be done during them.
- ryukafalz 4y ago
  It has me wishing the TRS-80 Model 100/Dynabook form factor had caught on more. Honestly, yes, I can understand this. A laptop screen pointed towards you feels like a private space, since other people can't easily see it. And indeed, I've definitely gotten work done in meetings for this reason. A device with a screen easily visible to everyone at the table I don't think would have this temptation. I sometimes use a Model 100 when I need to take notes without distractions, actually.
  - ecliptik 4y ago
    A Clockworkpi DevTerm [1] is a modern equivalent of TRS-80 Model 100 and could work for this. Should try bringing mine next time I have to go to an onsite. Could also use a proper one with a serial/wifi modem and telnet into a remote system to take notes [2]. 1. https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/devterm-kit-r01 https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/devterm-kit-r01 2. https://www.buildon.aws/posts/i-deployed-kubernetes-with-a-1986-tandy-102-portable-computer/ https://www.buildon.aws/posts/i-deployed-kubernetes-with-a-1...
    - AlanYx 4y ago
      I wish Clockwork Pi would release the DevTerm with a full-size keyboard. Same internals, same everything (even the screen could stay the same size). Without a full-size keyboard it's not really a solid replacement for the Model 100 for writing/notetaking.
    - ricardobeat 4y ago
      Holy shit I’ve been dreaming of something like this. Might order one. Thanks!!
moritonal 4y ago
Consider getting a blue-tooth keyboard attached to your phone face-up on the desk and typing away. No-one will argue that you're doing anything but taking notes because you can see it.
- HPsquared 4y ago
  This, it helps a lot to visibly communicate what you're doing.
colinflane 4y ago
Still relies on writing, but have you considered ReMarkable or something along those lines? At least you'd still have sync. And not to judge, but I wonder about your concern for writing / typing speed: are you really just taking notes, or transcribing? If the former, I would imagine writing quick glyphs might suffice. FWIW I don't use a ReMarkable or tablet. I'll use a text editor on my laptop, or a paper notebook, and it also troubles me I don't have effortless translation of the latter over to the former. But I have observed there is much less knee jerk to the ReMarkable form factor in meeting rooms, at least in my org.
- eloisant 4y ago
  Yes, I use a Supernote (competitor to ReMarkable) and it's socially way better than using a laptop. The laptop has a screen turned to its user, meaning other people don't see their screen and it visually creates a "wall" between the user and the rest of the group. A tablet doesn't have this problem, it lays on the table.
- NikolaNovak 4y ago
  >>are you really just taking notes, or transcribing Good point - both :). Sometimes it depends on meeting, sometimes I take turns - i.e. I'll "transcribe" (mindlessly type as I listen/pay attention), and then in a lull or after we covered an "atomic unit" of idea/thought/topic, I'll revise and summarize (convert it into "notes"). My mind works extremely hierarchically, which is why laptop is my preference over any digital paper, with its ability to rearrange - bullet points are my note-taking weapon of choice, and indentations are my friend. Many people say that they don't need to take a look at their written notes, they get benefit just from writing it down, and it works similarly for me I think - if I end a meeting with a structurally-indented bullet-list, it helped me structure topics/ideas/priorities/actions in my mind, and I'm good to go :) (many meetings I do both simultaneously - I'll be transcribing mindlessly on private monitor, and screensharing a second monitor where I periodically organize key points and actions for everybody. Like driving manual gearshift, it's a skill that seems distracting initially but develops and becomes automated/reflexive with practice. Usually the transcribing part can be thrown out at the end - it's just there to support the organizing/summarizing/"hierarchizing" action:)
vlod 4y ago
Maybe you can turn this into something positive by taking notes for everyone in the room. In a lot of offices you can stream to a tv (via apple-tv or what-not). By people seeing what you as typing and correcting any discrepancies, everyone will benefit. Win-win.. maybe?

ricardobeat 4y ago

90% of the time people will use their laptops to look at instant messaging, forums, emails, or event try to get some work done. So your boss is not wrong. You might wanna get an iPad as it is, at least for the moment, socially acceptable in meetings, even with the keyboard cover :)

NikolaNovak 4y ago
You're not wrong that it's more socially acceptable. It's insane though. IPad is fundamentally a media consumption device. I'm a touchless, fast, organized typer on my laptop (I used to be primary screensharer when I was ops manager). All that socially acceptable iPad would do is handicap me severely :-/
- piaste 4y ago
  If you can type touchless, try putting the laptop off to the side, and typing your notes without looking at the screen. The presenter might feel much less ignored if he still has your eye contact.
  - bathtub365 4y ago
    If they can type touchless their laptop doesn’t even need to be within arms length.
    - Robin_Message 4y ago
      Bluetooth keyboard and leave your laptop on your desk.
  - NikolaNovak 4y ago
    Yup; it's what I do now that I'm remote - I look directly into the camera while I type :). Alternatively, I screenshare so everybody sees / benefits from the notes.
jen20 4y ago
> even try to get some work done. The horror of trying to do something productive at work… My guess is most of the gains in productivity during COVID are people not paying attention in pointless meetings and doing real work instead of placating socialites’ ego-driven meglomania.
hiq 4y ago
> 90% of the time people will use their laptops to look at instant messaging, forums, emails, or even try to get some work done. So your boss is not wrong. > even try to get some work done I assume it's not what you meant, but it's interesting nonetheless: if being in this meeting does not mean getting work done, maybe the real problem mandatory attendance?
- JohnFen 4y ago
  I think a well-known problem with meetings is that most of the time, no meaningful work can be done during them.
ryukafalz 4y ago
It has me wishing the TRS-80 Model 100/Dynabook form factor had caught on more. Honestly, yes, I can understand this. A laptop screen pointed towards you feels like a private space, since other people can't easily see it. And indeed, I've definitely gotten work done in meetings for this reason. A device with a screen easily visible to everyone at the table I don't think would have this temptation. I sometimes use a Model 100 when I need to take notes without distractions, actually.
- ecliptik 4y ago
  A Clockworkpi DevTerm [1] is a modern equivalent of TRS-80 Model 100 and could work for this. Should try bringing mine next time I have to go to an onsite. Could also use a proper one with a serial/wifi modem and telnet into a remote system to take notes [2]. 1. https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/devterm-kit-r01 https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/devterm-kit-r01 2. https://www.buildon.aws/posts/i-deployed-kubernetes-with-a-1986-tandy-102-portable-computer/ https://www.buildon.aws/posts/i-deployed-kubernetes-with-a-1...
  - AlanYx 4y ago
    I wish Clockwork Pi would release the DevTerm with a full-size keyboard. Same internals, same everything (even the screen could stay the same size). Without a full-size keyboard it's not really a solid replacement for the Model 100 for writing/notetaking.
  - ricardobeat 4y ago
    Holy shit I’ve been dreaming of something like this. Might order one. Thanks!!

moritonal 4y ago

Consider getting a blue-tooth keyboard attached to your phone face-up on the desk and typing away. No-one will argue that you're doing anything but taking notes because you can see it.

HPsquared 4y ago
This, it helps a lot to visibly communicate what you're doing.

colinflane 4y ago

Still relies on writing, but have you considered ReMarkable or something along those lines? At least you'd still have sync. And not to judge, but I wonder about your concern for writing / typing speed: are you really just taking notes, or transcribing? If the former, I would imagine writing quick glyphs might suffice. FWIW I don't use a ReMarkable or tablet. I'll use a text editor on my laptop, or a paper notebook, and it also troubles me I don't have effortless translation of the latter over to the former. But I have observed there is much less knee jerk to the ReMarkable form factor in meeting rooms, at least in my org.

eloisant 4y ago
Yes, I use a Supernote (competitor to ReMarkable) and it's socially way better than using a laptop. The laptop has a screen turned to its user, meaning other people don't see their screen and it visually creates a "wall" between the user and the rest of the group. A tablet doesn't have this problem, it lays on the table.
NikolaNovak 4y ago
>>are you really just taking notes, or transcribing Good point - both :). Sometimes it depends on meeting, sometimes I take turns - i.e. I'll "transcribe" (mindlessly type as I listen/pay attention), and then in a lull or after we covered an "atomic unit" of idea/thought/topic, I'll revise and summarize (convert it into "notes"). My mind works extremely hierarchically, which is why laptop is my preference over any digital paper, with its ability to rearrange - bullet points are my note-taking weapon of choice, and indentations are my friend. Many people say that they don't need to take a look at their written notes, they get benefit just from writing it down, and it works similarly for me I think - if I end a meeting with a structurally-indented bullet-list, it helped me structure topics/ideas/priorities/actions in my mind, and I'm good to go :) (many meetings I do both simultaneously - I'll be transcribing mindlessly on private monitor, and screensharing a second monitor where I periodically organize key points and actions for everybody. Like driving manual gearshift, it's a skill that seems distracting initially but develops and becomes automated/reflexive with practice. Usually the transcribing part can be thrown out at the end - it's just there to support the organizing/summarizing/"hierarchizing" action:)

vlod 4y ago

Maybe you can turn this into something positive by taking notes for everyone in the room. In a lot of offices you can stream to a tv (via apple-tv or what-not). By people seeing what you as typing and correcting any discrepancies, everyone will benefit. Win-win.. maybe?