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A 40 billion dollar fine if you don’t do as the EU says… at some point tech companies are just going to pull out of the EU, right? For most (but not all!), GDPR

by fwlr 4y ago

A 40 billion dollar fine if you don’t do as the EU says… at some point tech companies are just going to pull out of the EU, right? For most (but not all!), GDPR was worth complying with (and had benefits for citizens). This is likely to also be worth complying with (and also has benefits for citizens), but I imagine the EU is going to run out of ideas that legitimately benefit users long before it runs out of desire to levy huge fines.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
eckesicle 4y ago
Why do you assume bad faith on behalf of the EU? Maybe when they run out of things to fine firms for that don't benefit their citizens ... they'll just stop fining them ...
LoveMortuus 4y ago
The EU doesn't exist for the purpose of giving fines to companies, if they "run out of ideas", they just keep doing what they're already doing most of the time. The whole 'fines' thing is just a small part of a much bigger thing.
yourusername 4y ago
If you pull out of the EU you've now created a unified market of half a billion consumers that need a alternative to your product. That seems like a good way to kickstart a competitor.
- 988747 4y ago
  Except EU is not a single market: there's 27 countries, speaking multiple languages, having different laws, so to serve the EU you need at least a dozen versions of your app. Also, EU has just decided that this half billion of consumers will be downgraded to the third world standard of living (google "Fit for 55"), so they won't really have much money to spend on tech toys anyway...
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    > EU has just decided that this half billion of consumers will be downgraded to the third world standard of living (google "Fit for 55") "Fit for 55 is a package by the European Union designed to reduce the European Union's greenhouse gas emissions by 55% by 2030." I call bullshit on your statement.
    - 988747 4y ago
      The only way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 55% is to push everyone into poverty, basically. Make the car ownership too expensive for common folks, as well as meat consumption, buying new clothes, heating your apartment in winter, air travel, and more.
      - AlchemistCamp 4y ago
        Why wouldn’t massive buildout of nuclear energy plants allow hitting that greenhouse emission goal while simultaneously tripling the amount of power used per person?
        Schroedingersat 4y ago
        Tell me you don't understand the distinction between U235 and U238 without telling me you don't understand the distinction between U235 and U238
        AlchemistCamp 4y ago
        That's an extremely uncharitable and snarky answer given the open-ended nature of my question. Thorium reactors don't use either and a fusion reactor wouldn't involve any isotope of uranium. Others may disagree, but I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that all R&D in nuclear energy grinds to a halt. I disagree with the GP's claim that poverty is "the only way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 55%."
        4y ago
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  If Apple just pulls iMessage from EU, nothing changes, the competitor already exists, is already dominant, and is a US Silicon Valley social media company.
scrollaway 4y ago
Do you think the EU is a capitalistic entity, with a board room of members that party with the fine money because they can buy themselves a few new yachts?
dmitriid 4y ago
Strange how you don't seem to realize that all these "ideas for fines" come years or decades after the "efficient and self-regulating free market" ends up what it will always end up: entrenched monopolies, moats, little competition and high barriers of entry.
- postexitus 4y ago
  What do you expect? The legislature to guess what will become the popular, largest and essential years before and regulate it beforehand?
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    No. It was just a reflection if what these fines are, and why they come about.
Barrin92 4y ago
The EU is a 17 trillion dollar economy. It's the second largest market in the world for most of these companies, they'll never pull out. It is simply hot air. They'd never even leave China unless the US gov. forces them at gunpoint.
- AlchemistCamp 4y ago
  Not true in Google’s case: https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-china.html https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-chin...
  - petodo 4y ago
    Google never really had any traction in China to start with, their search results were useless for Chinese content, so then they pretended to leave for some noble cause. Same with Amazon who tried for much longer until it gave up after decade.
    - jsnell 4y ago
      That's not true. They were at over 40% and growing at that time: https://gs.statcounter.com/press/google-gained-market-share-in-china-in-last-six-months https://gs.statcounter.com/press/google-gained-market-share-...
      - petodo 4y ago
        That's assuming sites/users in China use statcounter, completely misleading data. According Wikipedia and at least 2 different sources they quote, Google peaked in China at 29-35% and even that seems way too optimistic, if you ask anyone who used search in China back then or have been there. By my experience from years ago was Google search in Chinese language useless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China
        AlchemistCamp 4y ago

by fwlr 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

eckesicle 4y ago

Why do you assume bad faith on behalf of the EU? Maybe when they run out of things to fine firms for that don't benefit their citizens ... they'll just stop fining them ...

LoveMortuus 4y ago

The EU doesn't exist for the purpose of giving fines to companies, if they "run out of ideas", they just keep doing what they're already doing most of the time. The whole 'fines' thing is just a small part of a much bigger thing.

yourusername 4y ago

If you pull out of the EU you've now created a unified market of half a billion consumers that need a alternative to your product. That seems like a good way to kickstart a competitor.

988747 4y ago
Except EU is not a single market: there's 27 countries, speaking multiple languages, having different laws, so to serve the EU you need at least a dozen versions of your app. Also, EU has just decided that this half billion of consumers will be downgraded to the third world standard of living (google "Fit for 55"), so they won't really have much money to spend on tech toys anyway...
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > EU has just decided that this half billion of consumers will be downgraded to the third world standard of living (google "Fit for 55") "Fit for 55 is a package by the European Union designed to reduce the European Union's greenhouse gas emissions by 55% by 2030." I call bullshit on your statement.
  - 988747 4y ago
    The only way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 55% is to push everyone into poverty, basically. Make the car ownership too expensive for common folks, as well as meat consumption, buying new clothes, heating your apartment in winter, air travel, and more.
    - AlchemistCamp 4y ago
      Why wouldn’t massive buildout of nuclear energy plants allow hitting that greenhouse emission goal while simultaneously tripling the amount of power used per person?
      - Schroedingersat 4y ago
        Tell me you don't understand the distinction between U235 and U238 without telling me you don't understand the distinction between U235 and U238
        AlchemistCamp 4y ago
        That's an extremely uncharitable and snarky answer given the open-ended nature of my question. Thorium reactors don't use either and a fusion reactor wouldn't involve any isotope of uranium. Others may disagree, but I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that all R&D in nuclear energy grinds to a halt. I disagree with the GP's claim that poverty is "the only way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 55%."
        4y ago
rootusrootus 4y ago
If Apple just pulls iMessage from EU, nothing changes, the competitor already exists, is already dominant, and is a US Silicon Valley social media company.

scrollaway 4y ago

Do you think the EU is a capitalistic entity, with a board room of members that party with the fine money because they can buy themselves a few new yachts?

dmitriid 4y ago

Strange how you don't seem to realize that all these "ideas for fines" come years or decades after the "efficient and self-regulating free market" ends up what it will always end up: entrenched monopolies, moats, little competition and high barriers of entry.

postexitus 4y ago
What do you expect? The legislature to guess what will become the popular, largest and essential years before and regulate it beforehand?
- dmitriid 4y ago
  No. It was just a reflection if what these fines are, and why they come about.

Barrin92 4y ago

The EU is a 17 trillion dollar economy. It's the second largest market in the world for most of these companies, they'll never pull out. It is simply hot air. They'd never even leave China unless the US gov. forces them at gunpoint.

AlchemistCamp 4y ago
Not true in Google’s case: https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-china.html https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-chin...
- petodo 4y ago
  Google never really had any traction in China to start with, their search results were useless for Chinese content, so then they pretended to leave for some noble cause. Same with Amazon who tried for much longer until it gave up after decade.
  - jsnell 4y ago
    That's not true. They were at over 40% and growing at that time: https://gs.statcounter.com/press/google-gained-market-share-in-china-in-last-six-months https://gs.statcounter.com/press/google-gained-market-share-...
    - petodo 4y ago
      That's assuming sites/users in China use statcounter, completely misleading data. According Wikipedia and at least 2 different sources they quote, Google peaked in China at 29-35% and even that seems way too optimistic, if you ask anyone who used search in China back then or have been there. By my experience from years ago was Google search in Chinese language useless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China
      - AlchemistCamp 4y ago