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> Business optimized for the value it can capture in the short term As opposed to government? The reason every government is so bureaucratic is precisely becau

by hbrn 4y ago

> Business optimized for the value it can capture in the short term As opposed to government? The reason every government is so bureaucratic is precisely because it's incentives are structured to optimize for the short term. At least private business pays with blood for it's mistakes. > In theory, a government will be efficient at allocating resources for that In theory dictatorship is more efficient that any other form of government. In practice, humans are more flawed than we like to admit. > We HAVE to stop thinking that business is always more efficient at everything Nobody thinks business is always more efficient. But it turns out to be way more efficient on average. > it is built on the back of responsible government The beauty of capitalism is that it allows society to thrive even when all actors are irresponsible. Which we, humans, are.

cced 4y ago
> At least private business pays for with blood for it's mistakes. > The beauty of capitalism is that it allows society to thrive even when all actors are irresponsible. Which we, humans, are. I think the laid off tech workers and people of Ohio might have a few things to say about that..
- scarface74 4y ago
  You mean the tech workers who make anywhere from 4-8x the median wage in America and even 2x-3x the median wage in their local market? I’ll play the smallest fiddle for those who didn’t save during the good times. Yes, I work for $BigTech and I save a significant portion of my income.
  - cced 4y ago
    Violin or not, OP's post was regarding corporate efficiency. Reading any headline over the last few weeks will show you that corporations over-hired and are laying off workers. I guess blood is blood, regardless of who's it is. Curious how you glossed over the folks in Ohio.
    - hbrn 4y ago
      Sure, occasionally private businesses will screw up and hurt their employees. Nobody is denying that. But what's the alternative? Some kind of magical government that doesn't screw up? Government rarely has incentives to be efficient. It's mistakes are always covered by taxpayer money, effectively punishing those who are efficient. Why are we always comparing real thing that has downsides with magical thing that's perfect? I don't disagree, magical thing is indeed perfect. The only issue is that it doesn't exist.
      - cced 4y ago
        > It's mistakes are always covered by taxpayer money, effectively punishing those who are efficient. The government also covers bailouts for banks using taxpayer money, effectively punishing everyone. > Why are we always comparing real thing that has downsides with magical thing that's perfect? I don't disagree, magical thing is indeed perfect. The only issue is that it doesn't exist. Again, the original claims were 1) that corporations pay for their mistakes with blood and 2) that the beauty of capitalism allows for a thriving society with an entirely irresponsible set of actors. All that's being said here is that 1) private business do not in fact pay for their mistakes in blood and 2) capitalism doesn't allow a society to thrive when all actors are irresponsible, in fact, you only need to have a select few actors to be irresponsible in order to degrade the state of society.
        hbrn 4y ago
        > The government also covers bailouts for banks using taxpayer money, effectively punishing everyone. What's the alternative? Other than more scrutiny and harsher punishments for banks, which very few people are against. > private business do not in fact pay for their mistakes in blood Just because 0.1% of businesses gets bailouts, you're going to ignore 99.9%? Are you the type of person that says vaccines don't work because people still get sick? > capitalism doesn't allow a society to thrive when all actors are irresponsible, in fact, you only need to have a select few actors to be irresponsible in order to degrade the state of society. The "degraded state of society" is still orders of magnitude better than the alternatives I heard of. I'd say it still fits whatever the definition of thriving you can come up with. Nothing is perfect, it's quite easy to criticize anything. But if you're criticizing without offering any alternatives, your criticism isn't worth much. So I'll ask again, what is alternative that you're offering?
- whywhywhywhy 4y ago
  >laid off tech workers In government or union heavy industry they’d still be forced to pay them. Let’s keep that in mind as we see Twitter still running completely fine months later after firing so many. Not everyone has inherent value, many are being paid but not actually creating value the other side of the transaction and it’s silly to pretend that’s fine.
InCityDreams 4y ago
>Nobody thinks business is always more efficient. But it turns out to be way more efficient on average. But it turns out to be 'thought' to be way more efficient on average. Or there's an actual number?

by hbrn 4y ago

cced 4y ago

> At least private business pays for with blood for it's mistakes. > The beauty of capitalism is that it allows society to thrive even when all actors are irresponsible. Which we, humans, are. I think the laid off tech workers and people of Ohio might have a few things to say about that..

scarface74 4y ago
You mean the tech workers who make anywhere from 4-8x the median wage in America and even 2x-3x the median wage in their local market? I’ll play the smallest fiddle for those who didn’t save during the good times. Yes, I work for $BigTech and I save a significant portion of my income.
- cced 4y ago
  Violin or not, OP's post was regarding corporate efficiency. Reading any headline over the last few weeks will show you that corporations over-hired and are laying off workers. I guess blood is blood, regardless of who's it is. Curious how you glossed over the folks in Ohio.
  - hbrn 4y ago
    Sure, occasionally private businesses will screw up and hurt their employees. Nobody is denying that. But what's the alternative? Some kind of magical government that doesn't screw up? Government rarely has incentives to be efficient. It's mistakes are always covered by taxpayer money, effectively punishing those who are efficient. Why are we always comparing real thing that has downsides with magical thing that's perfect? I don't disagree, magical thing is indeed perfect. The only issue is that it doesn't exist.
    - cced 4y ago
      > It's mistakes are always covered by taxpayer money, effectively punishing those who are efficient. The government also covers bailouts for banks using taxpayer money, effectively punishing everyone. > Why are we always comparing real thing that has downsides with magical thing that's perfect? I don't disagree, magical thing is indeed perfect. The only issue is that it doesn't exist. Again, the original claims were 1) that corporations pay for their mistakes with blood and 2) that the beauty of capitalism allows for a thriving society with an entirely irresponsible set of actors. All that's being said here is that 1) private business do not in fact pay for their mistakes in blood and 2) capitalism doesn't allow a society to thrive when all actors are irresponsible, in fact, you only need to have a select few actors to be irresponsible in order to degrade the state of society.
      - hbrn 4y ago
        > The government also covers bailouts for banks using taxpayer money, effectively punishing everyone. What's the alternative? Other than more scrutiny and harsher punishments for banks, which very few people are against. > private business do not in fact pay for their mistakes in blood Just because 0.1% of businesses gets bailouts, you're going to ignore 99.9%? Are you the type of person that says vaccines don't work because people still get sick? > capitalism doesn't allow a society to thrive when all actors are irresponsible, in fact, you only need to have a select few actors to be irresponsible in order to degrade the state of society. The "degraded state of society" is still orders of magnitude better than the alternatives I heard of. I'd say it still fits whatever the definition of thriving you can come up with. Nothing is perfect, it's quite easy to criticize anything. But if you're criticizing without offering any alternatives, your criticism isn't worth much. So I'll ask again, what is alternative that you're offering?
whywhywhywhy 4y ago
>laid off tech workers In government or union heavy industry they’d still be forced to pay them. Let’s keep that in mind as we see Twitter still running completely fine months later after firing so many. Not everyone has inherent value, many are being paid but not actually creating value the other side of the transaction and it’s silly to pretend that’s fine.

InCityDreams 4y ago

>Nobody thinks business is always more efficient. But it turns out to be way more efficient on average. But it turns out to be 'thought' to be way more efficient on average. Or there's an actual number?