5 ms·

It's exciting to read about new discoveries like this. It suddenly sheds light on my own lived experience, confirming what has always felt true, and I hope new

It's exciting to read about new discoveries like this. It suddenly sheds light on my own lived experience, confirming what has always felt true, and I hope new treatments will come from this. I've been on a long term therapy journey for C-PTSD stemming from childhood trauma, and there's a part me that has always felt like I should be past all of that now that I'm some decades beyond that environment. There's part of your brain that tells you it's your problem, and won't accept that the mindset was deeply embedded before you even understood what was going on, or that other modes of existence are possible. The built-in pessimism has served me well in some professional capacities, but when this permeates all aspects of thinking, things do not go well in the long run. I'm on a much better path now, and meditation/yoga/some useful parts of Buddhist philosophy (and a really good therapist) are opening my eyes to new ways of thinking. But it has been a long and often painful journey.

300bps 4y ago
Someone on HN many years ago recommended the book, “Learned Optimism” and said it was life-changing for them. Read it, did the work. It was life changing. Seven years now with 0 anxiety after decades of having moderate to severe anxiety.
- hirvi74 4y ago
  I think I might purchase this book. I have seen it mentioned on here a few times before. If you do not mind, how did the book actually help you? Obviously, please do not feel obligated to answer if you are uncomfortable. I personally have found therapy to be nothing more than a substantial waste of time and money with perhaps a dash of cathartic release. Before anyone suggests that I need to "find the right one." I've seen around 14 different providers in about 12 years -- just doesn't work for me.
  - Kye 4y ago
    One advice I've heard is to learn about the different types of therapist and focus on finding one whose method (and there are a lot!) clicks with you. It's very possible all of those 14 providers used methods that didn't work for you.
  - haswell 4y ago
    My first therapist was a poor fit, and when I decided to make a change, I specifically sought out a trauma-aware therapist who specialized in cases that involved complex childhood trauma. This made all the difference for me, but it's possible the factors in play are not the same. I'm also pretty interested in the book mentioned above. I should also mention that the book "Why Buddhism is True" is a book that really opened my eyes to some aspects of human experience that just hadn't made any sense to me up to that point. This is not a religious book, but rather an examination of the philosophical claims of Buddhism and mapping those onto a modern understanding of evolutionary psychology. I had just started meditating when I read this, and reading it convinced me fully that I was on the right path. I've come to believe that this meditation practice is the single most important habit in my life at this point. It's a foundation for thinking more clearly, and thinking more clearly tends to sort out a bunch of other problems automatically.
    - hirvi74 4y ago
      I have been somewhat exposed to various Buddhist teachings through various lectures. I am a huge fan Alan Watts, and I have watched almost every video on Youtube from the content creator Dr. K/Healthygamer.gg (person/channel name). I like a lot of what I have heard, and I have tried to implement some of it in my life. I would not consider myself well versed in the practices by any means though. I will try to check out the book you mentioned as well. Hopefully, there is an audiobook version, that would be a huge help. I am so happy that mediation has been beneficial to you. From practitioners of mediation, I have heard nothing but positive reviews. I really want to do it, and I have tried on multiple occasions, but I seriously cannot physically sit still long enough to do it. Trust me, I want to be a Jedi. Nothing would be cooler than that. I have severe ADHD, and it makes things like reading books, mediating, and even therapy really difficult (amongst everything else). Of course, I am treated for it, but treatment is like drinking alcohol for depression. Sure, it kind of works in some ways, but it has its own world of problems.
      - bravura 4y ago
        "treatment is like drinking alcohol for depression. Sure, it kind of works in some ways, but it has its own world of problems." This does read as learned helplessness to me, a sympathetic stranger on the internet. I encourage you to try a therapist listing "trauma" as a key area of interest. Regardless of your ADHD diagnosis. See haswell and my comments above. This is from someone who has had six or seven therapists and only two were effective. (Guess what those two had in common...) Much love.
  - 300bps 4y ago
    The book teaches you the qualities of a pessimist vs an optimist. For example, a pessimist thinks anything good that happens to them is temporary and impersonal. And they think that anything bad that happens to them is permanent and personal. An optimist is the opposite of that. So if something good happens, a pessimist will think, “I just got lucky this time. I can’t count on good things happening in the future.” An optimist thinks, “of course I was able to make something good happen! Good things often happen for me.” Then he teaches you a method similar to cognitive behavioral therapy to record and then dispute your negative thoughts on paper. I followed it for about 5 months and it honestly rewired my brain dramatically for the better.
- tapanjk 4y ago
  Thank you for this book recommendation. I read the book in the last two days and I am glad that I have a fresh perspective on this subject matter. Next step: do the work. Thanks again.
throw1677718108 4y ago
Would you mind sharing more about what's helped you? Maybe stuff other than what you listed, but mostly more details on things like what type of therapy has helped (CBT/DBT?), or what part of Buddhist philosophy you found most useful? Thanks in advance!
thinkingkong 4y ago
Hey that mirrors quite a bit of my own journey. Are there any specific kinds of yoga, meditation, or modalities of therapy that have had an outsized impact on your progress?
- meisterwerk_app 4y ago
  I could recommend Sam Harris and his “Waking Up” App. Starting meditation practice with him has changed my life. You can check the app out here - https://dynamic.wakingup.com/shareOpenAccess/SC4545206 https://dynamic.wakingup.com/shareOpenAccess/SC4545206
- haswell 4y ago
  For one, having a trauma-aware therapist made a huge impact on my early progress. I specifically sought this out, and switched therapists to find the person I currently work with. Standard talk therapy with elements of CBT, but trauma-awareness was the difference between me melting down in session and not. I've been using the same Waking Up app mentioned in the sibling comment. I started going down a bit of a rabbit hole on consciousness awhile back, and eventually that led me to Sam Harris, and his book "Waking Up" was a bit of a gateway for me. I then started using the app, which is like taking everything you read about in the book and having it carefully presented to you bit by bit as you go through the practice. It's the first app that actually made meditation make sense to me, and the results have been life changing for me. It's mindfulness meditation also known as Vipassana, or "seeing things as they really are". Regarding Yoga, I've been using the "Yoga with Adriene" channel on YouTube. I'm not very experienced with this yet, but taking one of her 30 day journeys was a great way to get into it. I could feel my body get stronger bit by bit, and my awareness of the sensations in my body (something I've struggled with due to repressed trauma) has improved significantly.
  - bravura 4y ago
    For ANYONE seeking a good therapist and bewildered by the options, I also suggest to start with a (licensed) therapist with a specialty in trauma. Even if you don't think you have trauma. A typical therapist is almost zero-impact, you breeze through pre-prepared scripts and they nod and smile and you leave and back-pat and pay a bill. By typical, I mean in the center of the bell-curve. According to my lived experiences, and that of close friends. A therapist with impact will sit and listen and smile, and then they'll simply repeat something you said or ask an innocent question or laugh, and this small gesture will cause a satori-like awareness of what was previously invisible to you. I've never found a trauma-aware therapist incapable of reaching out and touching you deeply. This is the "I have rust on my resume, even if you don't code rust" of the therapist world. [edit: If it needs to be said plainly, run like hell from any unlicensed practitioner who focuses on trauma.]
theGnuMe 4y ago
EMDR will help if you’ve not tried it. I am assuming you have though since you mention complex ptsd. I’ve been lucky enough to suffer from both covert and overt depression. Behind my anger is sadness and that is depression. We learn a lot of this from our parents who probably suffered similarly themselves which is a form of chronic ptsd.
- jrumbut 4y ago
  I got close to nothing from EMDR. The only thing that works for me right now is running, but it's working fairly well so hey.
  - theonething 4y ago
    similar, any type of therapy has been a waste of time and money for me. Exercise on the other hand just makes me feel good.
    - theGnuMe 4y ago
      Exercise is a long term solution for sure. The act of doing vs thinking can be liberating.
      - eurasiantiger 4y ago
        Exercise is essentially the same as EMDR (bilateral movement) plus heroin (endorphins as in endogenous morphine peptides). Don’t fool yourself into thinking otherwise, otherwise you too will be a common churchgoer.
        theGnuMe 4y ago
        Weird claims you are making.
        eurasiantiger 4y ago
asebold 4y ago
I recently read “the body keeps the score” and wow-ee the things we still don’t understand about the mind and body connection is crazy. Glad to see more studies diving into this type of stuff, and survivors talking about how powerful meditation/yoga and other mind-body connection therapy is for them. The more you can share your experience, the closer we are to finding valuable treatments for c-ptsd and similar trauma. Thank you.

300bps 4y ago

Someone on HN many years ago recommended the book, “Learned Optimism” and said it was life-changing for them. Read it, did the work. It was life changing. Seven years now with 0 anxiety after decades of having moderate to severe anxiety.

hirvi74 4y ago
I think I might purchase this book. I have seen it mentioned on here a few times before. If you do not mind, how did the book actually help you? Obviously, please do not feel obligated to answer if you are uncomfortable. I personally have found therapy to be nothing more than a substantial waste of time and money with perhaps a dash of cathartic release. Before anyone suggests that I need to "find the right one." I've seen around 14 different providers in about 12 years -- just doesn't work for me.
- Kye 4y ago
  One advice I've heard is to learn about the different types of therapist and focus on finding one whose method (and there are a lot!) clicks with you. It's very possible all of those 14 providers used methods that didn't work for you.
- haswell 4y ago
  My first therapist was a poor fit, and when I decided to make a change, I specifically sought out a trauma-aware therapist who specialized in cases that involved complex childhood trauma. This made all the difference for me, but it's possible the factors in play are not the same. I'm also pretty interested in the book mentioned above. I should also mention that the book "Why Buddhism is True" is a book that really opened my eyes to some aspects of human experience that just hadn't made any sense to me up to that point. This is not a religious book, but rather an examination of the philosophical claims of Buddhism and mapping those onto a modern understanding of evolutionary psychology. I had just started meditating when I read this, and reading it convinced me fully that I was on the right path. I've come to believe that this meditation practice is the single most important habit in my life at this point. It's a foundation for thinking more clearly, and thinking more clearly tends to sort out a bunch of other problems automatically.
  - hirvi74 4y ago
    I have been somewhat exposed to various Buddhist teachings through various lectures. I am a huge fan Alan Watts, and I have watched almost every video on Youtube from the content creator Dr. K/Healthygamer.gg (person/channel name). I like a lot of what I have heard, and I have tried to implement some of it in my life. I would not consider myself well versed in the practices by any means though. I will try to check out the book you mentioned as well. Hopefully, there is an audiobook version, that would be a huge help. I am so happy that mediation has been beneficial to you. From practitioners of mediation, I have heard nothing but positive reviews. I really want to do it, and I have tried on multiple occasions, but I seriously cannot physically sit still long enough to do it. Trust me, I want to be a Jedi. Nothing would be cooler than that. I have severe ADHD, and it makes things like reading books, mediating, and even therapy really difficult (amongst everything else). Of course, I am treated for it, but treatment is like drinking alcohol for depression. Sure, it kind of works in some ways, but it has its own world of problems.
    - bravura 4y ago
      "treatment is like drinking alcohol for depression. Sure, it kind of works in some ways, but it has its own world of problems." This does read as learned helplessness to me, a sympathetic stranger on the internet. I encourage you to try a therapist listing "trauma" as a key area of interest. Regardless of your ADHD diagnosis. See haswell and my comments above. This is from someone who has had six or seven therapists and only two were effective. (Guess what those two had in common...) Much love.
- 300bps 4y ago
  The book teaches you the qualities of a pessimist vs an optimist. For example, a pessimist thinks anything good that happens to them is temporary and impersonal. And they think that anything bad that happens to them is permanent and personal. An optimist is the opposite of that. So if something good happens, a pessimist will think, “I just got lucky this time. I can’t count on good things happening in the future.” An optimist thinks, “of course I was able to make something good happen! Good things often happen for me.” Then he teaches you a method similar to cognitive behavioral therapy to record and then dispute your negative thoughts on paper. I followed it for about 5 months and it honestly rewired my brain dramatically for the better.
tapanjk 4y ago
Thank you for this book recommendation. I read the book in the last two days and I am glad that I have a fresh perspective on this subject matter. Next step: do the work. Thanks again.

throw1677718108 4y ago

Would you mind sharing more about what's helped you? Maybe stuff other than what you listed, but mostly more details on things like what type of therapy has helped (CBT/DBT?), or what part of Buddhist philosophy you found most useful? Thanks in advance!

thinkingkong 4y ago

Hey that mirrors quite a bit of my own journey. Are there any specific kinds of yoga, meditation, or modalities of therapy that have had an outsized impact on your progress?

meisterwerk_app 4y ago
I could recommend Sam Harris and his “Waking Up” App. Starting meditation practice with him has changed my life. You can check the app out here - https://dynamic.wakingup.com/shareOpenAccess/SC4545206 https://dynamic.wakingup.com/shareOpenAccess/SC4545206
haswell 4y ago
For one, having a trauma-aware therapist made a huge impact on my early progress. I specifically sought this out, and switched therapists to find the person I currently work with. Standard talk therapy with elements of CBT, but trauma-awareness was the difference between me melting down in session and not. I've been using the same Waking Up app mentioned in the sibling comment. I started going down a bit of a rabbit hole on consciousness awhile back, and eventually that led me to Sam Harris, and his book "Waking Up" was a bit of a gateway for me. I then started using the app, which is like taking everything you read about in the book and having it carefully presented to you bit by bit as you go through the practice. It's the first app that actually made meditation make sense to me, and the results have been life changing for me. It's mindfulness meditation also known as Vipassana, or "seeing things as they really are". Regarding Yoga, I've been using the "Yoga with Adriene" channel on YouTube. I'm not very experienced with this yet, but taking one of her 30 day journeys was a great way to get into it. I could feel my body get stronger bit by bit, and my awareness of the sensations in my body (something I've struggled with due to repressed trauma) has improved significantly.
- bravura 4y ago
  For ANYONE seeking a good therapist and bewildered by the options, I also suggest to start with a (licensed) therapist with a specialty in trauma. Even if you don't think you have trauma. A typical therapist is almost zero-impact, you breeze through pre-prepared scripts and they nod and smile and you leave and back-pat and pay a bill. By typical, I mean in the center of the bell-curve. According to my lived experiences, and that of close friends. A therapist with impact will sit and listen and smile, and then they'll simply repeat something you said or ask an innocent question or laugh, and this small gesture will cause a satori-like awareness of what was previously invisible to you. I've never found a trauma-aware therapist incapable of reaching out and touching you deeply. This is the "I have rust on my resume, even if you don't code rust" of the therapist world. [edit: If it needs to be said plainly, run like hell from any unlicensed practitioner who focuses on trauma.]

theGnuMe 4y ago

EMDR will help if you’ve not tried it. I am assuming you have though since you mention complex ptsd. I’ve been lucky enough to suffer from both covert and overt depression. Behind my anger is sadness and that is depression. We learn a lot of this from our parents who probably suffered similarly themselves which is a form of chronic ptsd.

jrumbut 4y ago
I got close to nothing from EMDR. The only thing that works for me right now is running, but it's working fairly well so hey.
- theonething 4y ago
  similar, any type of therapy has been a waste of time and money for me. Exercise on the other hand just makes me feel good.
  - theGnuMe 4y ago
    Exercise is a long term solution for sure. The act of doing vs thinking can be liberating.
    - eurasiantiger 4y ago
      Exercise is essentially the same as EMDR (bilateral movement) plus heroin (endorphins as in endogenous morphine peptides). Don’t fool yourself into thinking otherwise, otherwise you too will be a common churchgoer.
      - theGnuMe 4y ago
        Weird claims you are making.
        eurasiantiger 4y ago

asebold 4y ago

I recently read “the body keeps the score” and wow-ee the things we still don’t understand about the mind and body connection is crazy. Glad to see more studies diving into this type of stuff, and survivors talking about how powerful meditation/yoga and other mind-body connection therapy is for them. The more you can share your experience, the closer we are to finding valuable treatments for c-ptsd and similar trauma. Thank you.