5 ms·

So much to unpack. City selling things cheaply to sovereign funds. Price hikes when bought by VC for no reason (other than profit) Capture of car-centric infra

So much to unpack. City selling things cheaply to sovereign funds. Price hikes when bought by VC for no reason (other than profit) Capture of car-centric infrastructure, which makes it less likely to turn towards zero-carbon or multi-modal space - you can park 20 bikes in 1 car space. and more....

krashidov 4y ago
Very well said. What a shit show. I wonder if there was corruption involved. "Sell this thing for me on the cheap and we'll hire you in 5 years."
- boomskats 4y ago
  That's not corruption. That's 'lobbying'.
  - garyfirestorm 4y ago
    That's not lobbying. That's 'business' /s
- evol262 4y ago
  Count backwards. Sixty-one years left on a 75 year lease. It was in the middle of the 2008-2010 crash, and the city was facing massive budget shortfalls. They also leased Midway: https://www.reuters.com/article/chicago-parkingmeters/chicago-leases-parking-meters-for-1-16-billion-idUSN0227950220081202 https://www.reuters.com/article/chicago-parkingmeters/chicag... This is around the same time that PA tried to lease their turnpike, and cities all over the US were facing a post-boom hangover when projected revenues from permits and property taxes didn't align with budget realities. I'm not defending the decision, but it was far more shortsightedness than corruption.
  - themitigating 4y ago
    Either the public doesn't reelect you due to economic conditions probably out of your control or you do this. Democracies often force short sighted thinking because of 1. Frequent elections 2. Situations outside of your control but you are blamed by the public or attacked by the opposition for 3. Voters who may have nostalgia, emotions, and or a bad memory
    - jacobjjacob 4y ago
      People are often trying to implement and shorten term limits. But it amplifies this problem, and it gives lawmakers an incentive to line up their next job in the private sector while in office.
      - jszymborski 4y ago
        I think UK-style recall elections for ridings makes a lot more sense than short term limits.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Kon-Peki 4y ago
    > They also leased Midway That deal fell apart; it was never completed. But Chicago did lease the parking garage underneath Millennium Park to the same parking meter investor group. And that deal went bankrupt with the lease going back to the lender (who set up a new consortium which is also on the verge of bankruptcy). So basically the two parking deals have just now broken even ;) > Amid a legal skirmish with the city over the underground parking garages, the venture is in talks to relinquish them to banking giant Societe Generale S.A., which provided a $403 million loan to finance the 2006 deal, sources said. It's a sign that the investment has lost so much value with little prospect of a turnaround that the venture no longer sees a reason to own it. https://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20130912/CRED03/130919936/investor-group-prepares-to-hand-city-parking-garages-back-to-lender https://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20130912/CRED03/1309... > Chicago CFO Gene Saffold said the Midway Investment and Development Company, the group that successfully bid on the 99-year airport lease in September, was unable to secure financing, leading to the deal’s demise. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chicago-midway-lease-idUSTRE53J5LS20090420 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chicago-midway-lease-idUS...
- ElevenLathe 4y ago
  In Chicago, there's always corruption involved.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  It was done at the end of the reign of someone who had been mayor for 22 years, whose father had been mayor for 21 years. There aren't really any laws against corruption in Illinois unless you get both sides of a clearly stated quid pro quo on tape, and physical proof of the action and the compensation actually having occurred. It's also illegal to tape people unless they consent.
- robotnikman 4y ago
  It's Chicago, of course there was.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  > I wonder if there was corruption involved. It clearly said it was in Chicago and involved a Daley.
wrycoder 4y ago
And what happens when a meter breaks or gets run over? Chicago fixes it?
throwaway5959 4y ago
lol yeah I want to bike to the grocery store in December in Chicago, come on.
- glaucon 4y ago
  You might be interested in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URMQ0d286hY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URMQ0d286hY . Oulu is at least as cold as Chicago and has twice as much snowfall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oulu#Climate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oulu#Climate vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago#Climate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago#Climate . I'm not saying that _you_ would wish to cycle in December but making it practicable for many is a choice, as Oulu shows.
  - lapsed_pacifist 4y ago
    That city has a tiny fraction of the population density, commercial activity, and industrial transport of Chicago, they're really not comparable. Transporting people and goods over large distances by bicycle doesn't scale very well.
    - dublinben 4y ago
      So now a city is too dense for cycling to work? It’s usually the other way around. Either way, cars are inherently less space efficient than bikes, because they occupy so much more road space per passenger.
      - TheGigaChad 4y ago
        [dead]
    - glaucon 4y ago
      throwaway5959 mentioned travelling to their grocery store. I'm going to guess that their grocery store is not on the other side of Chicago from where they live. How big the city is that contains the grocery store doesn't seem directly relevant to that or does it ?
sva_ 4y ago
> 20 bikes in 1 car space That must be a very big car, or very tiny tightly packed bikes?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- tmnvix 4y ago
  Parking spaces are big: https://www.dimensions.com/element/parallel-parking-spaces-layouts https://www.dimensions.com/element/parallel-parking-spaces-l... At 7x2.5m I can imagine 10 bicycles side-by-side with ~70cm each, with another 10 'interleaved' opposite.
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
I really wonder if there is any way to change the structure of government so that politicians are forced to reckon with some of the longer term impacts of their decisions, as opposed to "I'll be out in a couple years, that'll be future mayor's problem". Right now Austin is trying some very dubious eminent domain measures (which were pretty drastically clobbered in court) to get out of a long term lease they signed just a few years ago to have a private operator run a small separate terminal at the airport. I think it was especially braindead for Austin to ever sign that lease - we were (and still are) growing like crazy, it didn't take much foresight to think Austin would eventually need to seriously expand the airport. Of course, hardly anyone involved with the original bad decision is still on city council, so it became someone else's problem.
a_puppy 4y ago
> Price hikes when bought by VC for no reason (other than profit) The company doesn't actually control the prices. See https://parkchicago.com/about/ https://parkchicago.com/about/ > The City Of Chicago retains control over pay station parking rates. CPM does not – and never has – set pay station parking rates. The City retains exclusive authority to determine and establish rates, set hours of operation, and place, add or remove metered spaces. The initial five‐year rate schedule, which ended in 2013, was approved by the City Council to align with rates comparable with other large U.S. cities. Prior to the agreement, parking rates in Chicago were much lower than the national average. Seventy percent of meters had not seen an increase in 20 years.
LatteLazy 4y ago
This should be the opposite: Sell the rights. Then abolish most of the parking and replace it with bike paths. No drop in city revenue. Sorry "investors", you SOL.

krashidov 4y ago

Very well said. What a shit show. I wonder if there was corruption involved. "Sell this thing for me on the cheap and we'll hire you in 5 years."

boomskats 4y ago
That's not corruption. That's 'lobbying'.
- garyfirestorm 4y ago
  That's not lobbying. That's 'business' /s
evol262 4y ago
Count backwards. Sixty-one years left on a 75 year lease. It was in the middle of the 2008-2010 crash, and the city was facing massive budget shortfalls. They also leased Midway: https://www.reuters.com/article/chicago-parkingmeters/chicago-leases-parking-meters-for-1-16-billion-idUSN0227950220081202 https://www.reuters.com/article/chicago-parkingmeters/chicag... This is around the same time that PA tried to lease their turnpike, and cities all over the US were facing a post-boom hangover when projected revenues from permits and property taxes didn't align with budget realities. I'm not defending the decision, but it was far more shortsightedness than corruption.
- themitigating 4y ago
  Either the public doesn't reelect you due to economic conditions probably out of your control or you do this. Democracies often force short sighted thinking because of 1. Frequent elections 2. Situations outside of your control but you are blamed by the public or attacked by the opposition for 3. Voters who may have nostalgia, emotions, and or a bad memory
  - jacobjjacob 4y ago
    People are often trying to implement and shorten term limits. But it amplifies this problem, and it gives lawmakers an incentive to line up their next job in the private sector while in office.
    - jszymborski 4y ago
      I think UK-style recall elections for ridings makes a lot more sense than short term limits.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Kon-Peki 4y ago
  > They also leased Midway That deal fell apart; it was never completed. But Chicago did lease the parking garage underneath Millennium Park to the same parking meter investor group. And that deal went bankrupt with the lease going back to the lender (who set up a new consortium which is also on the verge of bankruptcy). So basically the two parking deals have just now broken even ;) > Amid a legal skirmish with the city over the underground parking garages, the venture is in talks to relinquish them to banking giant Societe Generale S.A., which provided a $403 million loan to finance the 2006 deal, sources said. It's a sign that the investment has lost so much value with little prospect of a turnaround that the venture no longer sees a reason to own it. https://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20130912/CRED03/130919936/investor-group-prepares-to-hand-city-parking-garages-back-to-lender https://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20130912/CRED03/1309... > Chicago CFO Gene Saffold said the Midway Investment and Development Company, the group that successfully bid on the 99-year airport lease in September, was unable to secure financing, leading to the deal’s demise. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chicago-midway-lease-idUSTRE53J5LS20090420 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chicago-midway-lease-idUS...
ElevenLathe 4y ago
In Chicago, there's always corruption involved.
pessimizer 4y ago
It was done at the end of the reign of someone who had been mayor for 22 years, whose father had been mayor for 21 years. There aren't really any laws against corruption in Illinois unless you get both sides of a clearly stated quid pro quo on tape, and physical proof of the action and the compensation actually having occurred. It's also illegal to tape people unless they consent.
robotnikman 4y ago
It's Chicago, of course there was.
sokoloff 4y ago
> I wonder if there was corruption involved. It clearly said it was in Chicago and involved a Daley.

wrycoder 4y ago

And what happens when a meter breaks or gets run over? Chicago fixes it?

throwaway5959 4y ago

lol yeah I want to bike to the grocery store in December in Chicago, come on.

glaucon 4y ago
You might be interested in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URMQ0d286hY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URMQ0d286hY . Oulu is at least as cold as Chicago and has twice as much snowfall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oulu#Climate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oulu#Climate vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago#Climate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago#Climate . I'm not saying that _you_ would wish to cycle in December but making it practicable for many is a choice, as Oulu shows.
- lapsed_pacifist 4y ago
  That city has a tiny fraction of the population density, commercial activity, and industrial transport of Chicago, they're really not comparable. Transporting people and goods over large distances by bicycle doesn't scale very well.
  - dublinben 4y ago
    So now a city is too dense for cycling to work? It’s usually the other way around. Either way, cars are inherently less space efficient than bikes, because they occupy so much more road space per passenger.
    - TheGigaChad 4y ago
      [dead]
  - glaucon 4y ago
    throwaway5959 mentioned travelling to their grocery store. I'm going to guess that their grocery store is not on the other side of Chicago from where they live. How big the city is that contains the grocery store doesn't seem directly relevant to that or does it ?

sva_ 4y ago

> 20 bikes in 1 car space That must be a very big car, or very tiny tightly packed bikes?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tmnvix 4y ago
Parking spaces are big: https://www.dimensions.com/element/parallel-parking-spaces-layouts https://www.dimensions.com/element/parallel-parking-spaces-l... At 7x2.5m I can imagine 10 bicycles side-by-side with ~70cm each, with another 10 'interleaved' opposite.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

I really wonder if there is any way to change the structure of government so that politicians are forced to reckon with some of the longer term impacts of their decisions, as opposed to "I'll be out in a couple years, that'll be future mayor's problem". Right now Austin is trying some very dubious eminent domain measures (which were pretty drastically clobbered in court) to get out of a long term lease they signed just a few years ago to have a private operator run a small separate terminal at the airport. I think it was especially braindead for Austin to ever sign that lease - we were (and still are) growing like crazy, it didn't take much foresight to think Austin would eventually need to seriously expand the airport. Of course, hardly anyone involved with the original bad decision is still on city council, so it became someone else's problem.

a_puppy 4y ago

> Price hikes when bought by VC for no reason (other than profit) The company doesn't actually control the prices. See https://parkchicago.com/about/ https://parkchicago.com/about/ > The City Of Chicago retains control over pay station parking rates. CPM does not – and never has – set pay station parking rates. The City retains exclusive authority to determine and establish rates, set hours of operation, and place, add or remove metered spaces. The initial five‐year rate schedule, which ended in 2013, was approved by the City Council to align with rates comparable with other large U.S. cities. Prior to the agreement, parking rates in Chicago were much lower than the national average. Seventy percent of meters had not seen an increase in 20 years.

LatteLazy 4y ago

This should be the opposite: Sell the rights. Then abolish most of the parking and replace it with bike paths. No drop in city revenue. Sorry "investors", you SOL.