3 ms·

> I redirected attention to historic games that were gender neutral and that were shunned by the female gender, due most likely to social prejudices, that video

by ceol 15y ago

> I redirected attention to historic games that were gender neutral and that were shunned by the female gender, due most likely to social prejudices, that videogames are a guy thing. You replied to my arguments by implicitly inferring that the games I cited as examples were somewhat gender biased. I added some arguments to the contrary. Now you use Ms Pac-man's logo as the basis of your argument about the genderization in the game? Is the advertising/packaging somehow exempt from scrutiny in gender discussions? I don't see why I can't point to the packaging of Ms Pac-Man as a reason it's gendered. You do realize you're arguing against the notion that advertising intends to capture a specific audience, correct? > The last thing I remember from any of them was the packaging. That's great. Many people remember the packaging, and it's a huge factor in purchases. > Mario could have been after the golden treasure, or the secret chamber, or delivering the princess, or whatever, it made absolutely no difference to game play. But it wasn't, and until you can see that it wasn't, you'll never understand why gender discrimination is such an issue. > The 2 games that you cited Arkham City and DC New 52, I've never heard of, so I won't dispute your claims. I would however underline the fact that they're recent releases and bear no weight in our current discussion. I only used those because I assumed you had prior knowledge of them. DC New 52 isn't even a game; it's a reboot of the original DC comic characters but made more "modern" which equates to all the female characters becoming slutty. I used them to prove my point that video games have rarely been female-friendly or had women in mind. Lara Croft? Appealed to young men with her chest and short-shorts. Samus Aran? Did you see what she looked like at the end of the first game? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Samus_at_the_end_of_Metroid.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Samus_at_the_end_of_Metroi... That's on the NES! Please, take the time to put yourself in a woman's shoes. How would you feel if every major video game ever made had either a male or male-fantasy female main character?

mekoka 15y ago
I'm not going to continue to discuss this with you, because I realize now that I've been pointing in a specific direction, while you've had your own agenda all along and simply decided to engage me with no regard to what the discussion was actually about. About Lara Croft and Samus Aran (which btw, were only introduced to the conversation to make the point that male/female protagonists have nothing to do with gameplay), I'd simply like to point out that I don't see what distinguish them so much from the Madonnas and other Britney Spears.
- ceol 15y ago
  You're doing a poor job of not continuing to discuss it with me by immediately continuing to discuss it. Of course I have an agenda: it's to hopefully enlighten some HN readers about gender discrimination in the tech industry. Most people have an agenda; you obviously did when you replied to me. If you don't understand this discussion's direction, I'd be happy to guide you through it. For starters, it's about how video games have always been— and continue to be— gendered towards males. If you thought it was about something else, I can't really see why, since my original reply cemented the topic by pointing out the gendering in classic retro games. > About Lara Croft and Samus Aran (which btw, were only introduced to the conversation to make the point that male/female protagonists have nothing to do with gameplay), I'd simply like to point out that I don't see what distinguish them so much from the Madonnas and other Britney Spears. That's great! You're seeing how sexualized many female "role models" are. And just to round out my reply: we're not limited to gameplay here— story and graphics are more important. There's a reason Lara Croft was busty and Samus Aran wore a bikini under her suit despite it not making any sense, and it wasn't because girls love playing as them.

by ceol 15y ago

mekoka 15y ago

I'm not going to continue to discuss this with you, because I realize now that I've been pointing in a specific direction, while you've had your own agenda all along and simply decided to engage me with no regard to what the discussion was actually about. About Lara Croft and Samus Aran (which btw, were only introduced to the conversation to make the point that male/female protagonists have nothing to do with gameplay), I'd simply like to point out that I don't see what distinguish them so much from the Madonnas and other Britney Spears.

ceol 15y ago
You're doing a poor job of not continuing to discuss it with me by immediately continuing to discuss it. Of course I have an agenda: it's to hopefully enlighten some HN readers about gender discrimination in the tech industry. Most people have an agenda; you obviously did when you replied to me. If you don't understand this discussion's direction, I'd be happy to guide you through it. For starters, it's about how video games have always been— and continue to be— gendered towards males. If you thought it was about something else, I can't really see why, since my original reply cemented the topic by pointing out the gendering in classic retro games. > About Lara Croft and Samus Aran (which btw, were only introduced to the conversation to make the point that male/female protagonists have nothing to do with gameplay), I'd simply like to point out that I don't see what distinguish them so much from the Madonnas and other Britney Spears. That's great! You're seeing how sexualized many female "role models" are. And just to round out my reply: we're not limited to gameplay here— story and graphics are more important. There's a reason Lara Croft was busty and Samus Aran wore a bikini under her suit despite it not making any sense, and it wasn't because girls love playing as them.