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Alternative: watch native content. Start with easy short content, build up to vlogs, series, movies. The idea of 'convenient 10 minutes a day' will get you now

Alternative: watch native content. Start with easy short content, build up to vlogs, series, movies. The idea of 'convenient 10 minutes a day' will get you nowhere. People who seriously want to learn a language know it takes 1-2-3 hours of daily immersion. The only way '10 minutes a day' would work is if you lived in a country, were surrounded by the language and only counted 10 minutes you spend reviewing a grammar book. What all those tools want are users who pay regularly. So if they taught you a language well you'd be gone in a year or two. Duolingo can is great at teaching you a language if you then had to use that language in Duolingo.

comfypotato 4y ago
Are you joking? Starting to learn a language by watching native content? Get out of here with your bullshit. And fuck you for implying I don’t actually want to learn a language on a thread defending a language learning app. Getting to the point that you can consume media and actually learn a language is the hard part. That’s where Duolingo excels. Obviously fluency takes additional work. Duolingo’s lessons for foreign alphabets are perfect examples. Some are better than others, but they all teach you how to read the script in a fun and time-manageable way. This aspect of Duolingo is free, fun, and it works. I’ve made multiple attempts to learn languages with foreign alphabets before, and they’ve failed because of the logistics of studying the basics. Practicing and consuming content once you can function in the language is different, and it requires a different kind of motivation. I’ve never struggled with picking up additional vocab or grammar once the initial hurdles were overcome.
- kjerzyk 4y ago
  First of - rude. Why would you post something like this on a comment that was actually trying to share some tips with you? I kind of want to ignore it now and say 'well good luck then' but at the same time I want to ignore it and actually give you some advice. That's how I started with language learning. There are channels that are dedicated to native content that's easy to understand. For example: Dreaming Spanish. You listen to content in you target language and learn sentence structure and vocabulary. You asked 'is there alternative to Duolingo' and I gave you one. In return I got abuse. Not sure this was worth it.
  - watwut 4y ago
    There is huge big difference between what you wrote "Start with easy short content, build up to vlogs, series, movies." and "dreaming spanish". Dreaming Spanish is literally alternative structured course. It is not nearly the same as starting by consuming media outside of structured course.
    - kjerzyk 4y ago
      I don't see Dreaming Spanish as a structured course. If you do, ok, my recommendation might not make as much sense. The way I see Dreaming Spanish is an adult version of kids shows where they point at things and explain things in simple terms. If kids shows were more interesting to adults I'd happily watch them over Dreaming Spanish. And there are shows like Bingo that are easy to understand, short and engaging enough for adults (or at least engaging enough for me).
      - watwut 4y ago
        How is it NOT structured course? It was literally designed as a structured course teaching you the language step by step. It was made by teachers for students with the intention to teach the language. I am inclined to believe you that it is effective. If I ever get serious about Spanish, I might try it out. And also, undestading shows like bingo or kids shows requires already existing knowledge of words. You will not figure out meaning of words purely based on watching them.
        kjerzyk 4y ago
        Maybe we just have different definitions of a structured course? To me a structured course is: *Here's a video, here's exercise, that's homework, this is a little fragment to read. The videos are not connected in any way, I can watch them in any order. Most of the creators aren't teachers, they don't talk in a way that a usual structured course would: 'here's a list of 10 animals: dog, cat, fox' asking you to repeat after them. A lot of the videos are pretty much 'day in life', 'my thoughts on', 'something interesting about..' - I could see them as early 2000s youtube videos where everyone had a vlog. I wouldn't call it a structured course. I see it as a great contributor to a learning system that's comprehensible input - but there are many other creators that contribute to it. But if you see it as structured course, ok :)
watwut 4y ago
> People who seriously want to learn a language know it takes 1-2-3 hours of daily immersion. That is considerable amount of effort that will definitely get you far. However, I know many people who did learned foreign language and the amount of concentrated effort you write about would be unusual for them. Sure, it took years, but no, full hour of daily immersion on regular would be exceptional.
- Tainnor 4y ago
  It really depends on the language, Japanese takes much longer than Spanish for English speakers for example. And yeah, you don't need to invest several hours each day - that's unrealistic for most people. But I also think you get nowhere by doing just 10 minutes a day, even if you do it every day for years. You need to set aside time for conscious learning, e.g. on weekends. Then you could e.g. do the 10 minutes a day during the weeks for reviewing vocab, or reading short texts, or whatever. I don't think you can do it without the occasional "crunch time". (There's also the fact, of course, that the better you get at your target language the less will consuming content feel like a chore to you and so you can tolerate more of it, and even enjoy it.)
  - watwut 4y ago
    I actually think that 10 minutes a day can get you pretty far, especially for beginner. Namely, to slowly get you to a stage when you are able to read those short texts over weekend. Ability to read a short text is fairly large step in learning language. And even then, reading 10 minutes day is going to be more effective then reading for 70 minutes once a week. 10 minutes a day, whether duolingo or not, will get you further then 70 minutes once a week in a crunch mode. That holds for language, playing musical instrument, sport, whatever. The hardest part in those is to keep interest and touch with activity over the long time it requires. And the big enemy are months when you pause the activity entirely. Obviously you have to mix the learning modes. And obviously the more time you put into it the better. --------------- I also think that people get naive about amount of time people actually spend learning when going to classes in school or after school club. Typically, get 1-2 lessons a week plus some homework. Sometimes you get 3, but any more then that is unusually intensive. The typical expectation when going to in-person classes is that yes, it will take years till you are anywhere near good command of the language. That a year after, you can survive your way, but still cant consume most of normal media without subtitles. Those are reasonable expectations.

comfypotato 4y ago

Are you joking? Starting to learn a language by watching native content? Get out of here with your bullshit. And fuck you for implying I don’t actually want to learn a language on a thread defending a language learning app. Getting to the point that you can consume media and actually learn a language is the hard part. That’s where Duolingo excels. Obviously fluency takes additional work. Duolingo’s lessons for foreign alphabets are perfect examples. Some are better than others, but they all teach you how to read the script in a fun and time-manageable way. This aspect of Duolingo is free, fun, and it works. I’ve made multiple attempts to learn languages with foreign alphabets before, and they’ve failed because of the logistics of studying the basics. Practicing and consuming content once you can function in the language is different, and it requires a different kind of motivation. I’ve never struggled with picking up additional vocab or grammar once the initial hurdles were overcome.

kjerzyk 4y ago
First of - rude. Why would you post something like this on a comment that was actually trying to share some tips with you? I kind of want to ignore it now and say 'well good luck then' but at the same time I want to ignore it and actually give you some advice. That's how I started with language learning. There are channels that are dedicated to native content that's easy to understand. For example: Dreaming Spanish. You listen to content in you target language and learn sentence structure and vocabulary. You asked 'is there alternative to Duolingo' and I gave you one. In return I got abuse. Not sure this was worth it.
- watwut 4y ago
  There is huge big difference between what you wrote "Start with easy short content, build up to vlogs, series, movies." and "dreaming spanish". Dreaming Spanish is literally alternative structured course. It is not nearly the same as starting by consuming media outside of structured course.
  - kjerzyk 4y ago
    I don't see Dreaming Spanish as a structured course. If you do, ok, my recommendation might not make as much sense. The way I see Dreaming Spanish is an adult version of kids shows where they point at things and explain things in simple terms. If kids shows were more interesting to adults I'd happily watch them over Dreaming Spanish. And there are shows like Bingo that are easy to understand, short and engaging enough for adults (or at least engaging enough for me).
    - watwut 4y ago
      How is it NOT structured course? It was literally designed as a structured course teaching you the language step by step. It was made by teachers for students with the intention to teach the language. I am inclined to believe you that it is effective. If I ever get serious about Spanish, I might try it out. And also, undestading shows like bingo or kids shows requires already existing knowledge of words. You will not figure out meaning of words purely based on watching them.
      - kjerzyk 4y ago
        Maybe we just have different definitions of a structured course? To me a structured course is: *Here's a video, here's exercise, that's homework, this is a little fragment to read. The videos are not connected in any way, I can watch them in any order. Most of the creators aren't teachers, they don't talk in a way that a usual structured course would: 'here's a list of 10 animals: dog, cat, fox' asking you to repeat after them. A lot of the videos are pretty much 'day in life', 'my thoughts on', 'something interesting about..' - I could see them as early 2000s youtube videos where everyone had a vlog. I wouldn't call it a structured course. I see it as a great contributor to a learning system that's comprehensible input - but there are many other creators that contribute to it. But if you see it as structured course, ok :)

watwut 4y ago

> People who seriously want to learn a language know it takes 1-2-3 hours of daily immersion. That is considerable amount of effort that will definitely get you far. However, I know many people who did learned foreign language and the amount of concentrated effort you write about would be unusual for them. Sure, it took years, but no, full hour of daily immersion on regular would be exceptional.

Tainnor 4y ago
It really depends on the language, Japanese takes much longer than Spanish for English speakers for example. And yeah, you don't need to invest several hours each day - that's unrealistic for most people. But I also think you get nowhere by doing just 10 minutes a day, even if you do it every day for years. You need to set aside time for conscious learning, e.g. on weekends. Then you could e.g. do the 10 minutes a day during the weeks for reviewing vocab, or reading short texts, or whatever. I don't think you can do it without the occasional "crunch time". (There's also the fact, of course, that the better you get at your target language the less will consuming content feel like a chore to you and so you can tolerate more of it, and even enjoy it.)
- watwut 4y ago
  I actually think that 10 minutes a day can get you pretty far, especially for beginner. Namely, to slowly get you to a stage when you are able to read those short texts over weekend. Ability to read a short text is fairly large step in learning language. And even then, reading 10 minutes day is going to be more effective then reading for 70 minutes once a week. 10 minutes a day, whether duolingo or not, will get you further then 70 minutes once a week in a crunch mode. That holds for language, playing musical instrument, sport, whatever. The hardest part in those is to keep interest and touch with activity over the long time it requires. And the big enemy are months when you pause the activity entirely. Obviously you have to mix the learning modes. And obviously the more time you put into it the better. --------------- I also think that people get naive about amount of time people actually spend learning when going to classes in school or after school club. Typically, get 1-2 lessons a week plus some homework. Sometimes you get 3, but any more then that is unusually intensive. The typical expectation when going to in-person classes is that yes, it will take years till you are anywhere near good command of the language. That a year after, you can survive your way, but still cant consume most of normal media without subtitles. Those are reasonable expectations.