4 ms·

Apart from the replies below that these are different issues, the real argument concerning rule of law is that Hungary is receiving EU funds which then flow in

Apart from the replies below that these are different issues, the real argument concerning rule of law is that Hungary is receiving EU funds which then flow in shady coffers as the Orban government chooses to not enforce the law of simply sets up intransparent 'legal' but unsound systems. Orban is undermining the basics of democracy and a functioning state to keep in power and get a profit - this is far far away from a discussion about engine types.

epicureanideal 4y ago
I’ll be honest, it seems like every even semi-conservative government gets talked about this way, such that even American presidents are compared to Hitler, and at this point I just assume without mountains of evidence that it’s just propaganda and whatever Orban is doing is just unpopular with the left. The left does plenty that I’d call unconstitutional (although the right is catching up), but they’re not talked about as much in the popular media. Just saying, there are probably tens of millions having the same reaction as me. When everyone is called a dictator, don’t be surprised when we yawn when the next person is called a dictator. And some day it might be important to have a useful label like that.
- toyg 4y ago
  Orbàn is not just "unpopular with the left", but also with moderate centrists like French president Emmanuel Macron. He's been effectively thrown out of the European People's Party, the traditional European right linked to Christian establishment. When you're too crooked even for the ruling elites, you're probably crooked beyond salvation. Sometimes people cry wolf because there is an actual wolf, and refusing to accept it will result in getting eaten.
  - epicureanideal 4y ago
    > moderate centrists like French president Emmanuel Macron. But who is also a globalist whereas Orban is not. > even for the ruling elites The ruling globalist elites. The “citizen of anywhere” elites, who are not allies of the “citizens of somewhere” elites, to use Victor Davis Hansen inspired terminology.
- lock-the-spock 4y ago
  Sorry that you put your political preferences in there but I can and do criticise a corrupt lefist dictator in Venezuela with as much gusto as a corrupt right wing dictator in Hungary or Russia. They persecute gays and vilify Jews. You don't have to be left to think that wrong. But even if you think that right, Orban has milked billions out of the system for himself and his family, and has completely captured the electoral system by changing the laws and captured the media by bribery (aka government advertisements) and force (aka using state machinery like tax investigators to punish and drive out non-complying media). I'd hate any leftie doing this the same as any rightie. But no matter your political colour, Orban is an anti-democratic corrupt elite fostering a one party state. He is bad for Hungary, for the EU and for the rest of the world.

epicureanideal 4y ago

I’ll be honest, it seems like every even semi-conservative government gets talked about this way, such that even American presidents are compared to Hitler, and at this point I just assume without mountains of evidence that it’s just propaganda and whatever Orban is doing is just unpopular with the left. The left does plenty that I’d call unconstitutional (although the right is catching up), but they’re not talked about as much in the popular media. Just saying, there are probably tens of millions having the same reaction as me. When everyone is called a dictator, don’t be surprised when we yawn when the next person is called a dictator. And some day it might be important to have a useful label like that.

toyg 4y ago
Orbàn is not just "unpopular with the left", but also with moderate centrists like French president Emmanuel Macron. He's been effectively thrown out of the European People's Party, the traditional European right linked to Christian establishment. When you're too crooked even for the ruling elites, you're probably crooked beyond salvation. Sometimes people cry wolf because there is an actual wolf, and refusing to accept it will result in getting eaten.
- epicureanideal 4y ago
  > moderate centrists like French president Emmanuel Macron. But who is also a globalist whereas Orban is not. > even for the ruling elites The ruling globalist elites. The “citizen of anywhere” elites, who are not allies of the “citizens of somewhere” elites, to use Victor Davis Hansen inspired terminology.
lock-the-spock 4y ago
Sorry that you put your political preferences in there but I can and do criticise a corrupt lefist dictator in Venezuela with as much gusto as a corrupt right wing dictator in Hungary or Russia. They persecute gays and vilify Jews. You don't have to be left to think that wrong. But even if you think that right, Orban has milked billions out of the system for himself and his family, and has completely captured the electoral system by changing the laws and captured the media by bribery (aka government advertisements) and force (aka using state machinery like tax investigators to punish and drive out non-complying media). I'd hate any leftie doing this the same as any rightie. But no matter your political colour, Orban is an anti-democratic corrupt elite fostering a one party state. He is bad for Hungary, for the EU and for the rest of the world.