4 ms·

Classroom size does not actually matter much. Teachers unions love smaller classrooms, though... Your first item -- which is really many items -- does matter.

Classroom size does not actually matter much. Teachers unions love smaller classrooms, though... Your first item -- which is really many items -- does matter. Especially if we open about the fact that "socioeconomic background" is mainly a (poor) proxy for the students' IQ. We know this, because grades track the students' IQ better than their socioeconomic background or the IQ of their parents. "Does the teacher understand the material?" is a low bar but one that many teachers don't clear. This is something that could actually realistically be fixed.

Hermitian909 4y ago
Classroom size absolutely matters, at the extreme you encounter Bloom's 2 sigma[0] around ratios of 3:1. Small classes get you two things: 1. Easier classroom management 2. More individualized education (1) is good and has some effect, but (2) is the meat and potatoes. I will grant the effects are not linear and so haggling about 16-24 kids may not be worth it but the difference between 20 kids and 10 is enormous. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_2_sigma_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_2_sigma_problem
- timthorn 4y ago
  There's been some good research in the UK about the impact of class size in schools there. The summary is that it is unlikely to be the most effective way of improving outcomes: https://educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/education-evidence/teaching-learning-toolkit/reducing-class-size https://educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/education-eviden... https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/class-size-and-education-in-england-evidence-report https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/class-size-and-ed...
tstrimple 4y ago
Classroom size matters a whole lot if you're expecting teachers to give special attention to struggling students to make up for parental deficiencies.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  My proposal doesn't expect anything. It just gives a bonus if the kid reaches grade level. Leave it entirely up to the teacher as to how to achieve that, or not. I bet the teachers will find a way. Greed is funny that way :-)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
tptacek 4y ago
None of these assertions about SES and IQ are supported with citations, which is unsurprising because they're unlikely to be true: instead, we have studies that show the opposite thing (see, for instance, Turkheimer).

Hermitian909 4y ago

Classroom size absolutely matters, at the extreme you encounter Bloom's 2 sigma[0] around ratios of 3:1. Small classes get you two things: 1. Easier classroom management 2. More individualized education (1) is good and has some effect, but (2) is the meat and potatoes. I will grant the effects are not linear and so haggling about 16-24 kids may not be worth it but the difference between 20 kids and 10 is enormous. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_2_sigma_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_2_sigma_problem

timthorn 4y ago
There's been some good research in the UK about the impact of class size in schools there. The summary is that it is unlikely to be the most effective way of improving outcomes: https://educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/education-evidence/teaching-learning-toolkit/reducing-class-size https://educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/education-eviden... https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/class-size-and-education-in-england-evidence-report https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/class-size-and-ed...

tstrimple 4y ago

Classroom size matters a whole lot if you're expecting teachers to give special attention to struggling students to make up for parental deficiencies.

WalterBright 4y ago
My proposal doesn't expect anything. It just gives a bonus if the kid reaches grade level. Leave it entirely up to the teacher as to how to achieve that, or not. I bet the teachers will find a way. Greed is funny that way :-)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

tptacek 4y ago

None of these assertions about SES and IQ are supported with citations, which is unsurprising because they're unlikely to be true: instead, we have studies that show the opposite thing (see, for instance, Turkheimer).