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Copy and pasting from elsewhere in the thread: Some schools being above grade level has nothing to do with teaching methodology, and everything to do with stud
by cm2012 4y ago
Copy and pasting from elsewhere in the thread:
Some schools being above grade level has nothing to do with teaching methodology, and everything to do with student composition. Smart people who raise their kids to do well in school move to neighborhoods with better schools, which raises the grade levels.
Ex: I went to Bronx Science, a specialized high school in NYC where 98% of the students are above grade level and go to college. The principal at the time was known to be an obvious subject of nepotism and generally made poor decisions often. The guidance department was a joke. Teachers were above average because schools full of smart kids attract smart teachers, but not so amazing that they'd make up for kids who started below grade level if there were any.
My wife actually went to the same high school and got depression, she dropped out of BX Science and went to a much lesser rated school. The teachers there were actually better in many ways (more organized, better processes, really useful classes on work skills and stuff were available for seniors due to grants) but the students were still generally below grade level and less than 1/3 went to college according to the stats. She was effortlessly at the top of her class even though she was severely depressed and missed days all the time.
- zozbot234 4y agoThe "good students attract good teachers" factor is also why tracking is a terrible idea. It means that students who have "tracked" lower at any point in their schooling are then stuck with the worst quality teachers and cannot catch up to average standards.
- peterfirefly 4y agoDoes it help a struggling student if the teaching is 1) too fast and 2) based on things the student hasn't learned in previous years? Of course tracking is a good idea.
- fnordpiglet 4y agoConversely a teacher teaching below a students ability is going to drive the student out of the classroom. I was egalitarianly not tracked and I barely graduated school because I was so bored I checked out in the 6th grade, yet got summa cum laude at one of the worlds most difficult engineering programs.
- troupe 4y ago> Some schools being above grade level has nothing to do with teaching methodology, and everything to do with student composition While I mostly agree, we shouldn't underestimate the destruction that can be wrought by a bad teacher.
- fnordpiglet 4y agoI’d also note that teacher quality probably correlated heavily to funding and “lack of social challenges” in the student body. Schools with worse parental education attainment levels, higher poverty rates, discriminated against classes and other demographics, kids exposed to more social ills, etc will lead to worse teachers picking that as their job opportunity. Why? Because most people prefer a job that’s not extraordinarily difficult in ways they’re not compelled by. There will always be a set of teachers that are compelled to be a great teacher AND a great social worker, but you have to expect that joint distribution is pretty small relative to the staffing needs.
- fnordpiglet 4y agoI’d posit given the data presented students and schools being above grade level has more to do with the definition of grade level than literally any other factor. I’m curious what you believe the phrase means in this context?
- cm2012 4y agoI am using an absolute "grade level" for the average NYC student in general, as decided by whoever sets grade level for NYC, compared to the two schools here (which are above and below that level respectively).