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Ironic considering we have a German MP saying the following only a few months ago. > This is in no way about sanctioning the Orbán government, but about sustai

Ironic considering we have a German MP saying the following only a few months ago. > This is in no way about sanctioning the Orbán government, but about sustainably strengthening the rule of law — which Hungary voluntarily committed to when it joined the EU - Michael Link, https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-lawmakers-push-hard-line-hungary-rule-of-law/ https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-lawmakers-push-hard-...

ginko 4y ago
I don't see the irony here. Those two cases are barely related other than that both involve Germany.
- infamouscow 4y ago
  The quote from November 2022 of a German MP saying that Hungary must go along with the laws enacted by the EU commission. It only took a few months for the shoe to be on the other foot. Now it's Germany, rather than Hungary that does not want to comply with EU law.
  - znkynz 4y ago
    Its not EU law as yet. EU Members can weild the veto if they choose.
    - arlort 4y ago
      No, they can't on this. This procedure requires "only" QMV. That's not to say it'll definitely pass, but there's no veto https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/voting-calculator/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/... You can play with possible coalitions on this link, to be fair due to its population and the nature of this law germany is de facto a swing vote
  - peterfirefly 4y ago
    There is a difference between not complying with something that already is EU law and not agreeing with the other member states during negotiations BEFORE something becomes EU law.
  - ginko 4y ago
    The proposed 2035 fossil fuel car ban isn't an existing law. It's in the negotiation stage and Germany is negotiating. This is completely different from Hungary not following laws existing when they joined the EU.
  - arlort 4y ago
    The "shoe on the other foot" expression implies that the two situations are the same, or at the very least comparable The situation in hungary is the government violating core principles that stand at the heart of the EU with behaviours that, were Hungary applying for membership right now would see them rejected outright Right now germany is signalling they might vote against a proposed change in ordinary law. That's how laws are made, some actors vote for, some vote against and if there's enough actors in favour the law becomes such and binds all It'd be remotely comparable if Germany were refusing to comply with an adopted law, and even then comparing rule of law principles with commercial regulations would be distasteful at best
  - lock-the-spock 4y ago
    Apart from the replies below that these are different issues, the real argument concerning rule of law is that Hungary is receiving EU funds which then flow in shady coffers as the Orban government chooses to not enforce the law of simply sets up intransparent 'legal' but unsound systems. Orban is undermining the basics of democracy and a functioning state to keep in power and get a profit - this is far far away from a discussion about engine types.
    - epicureanideal 4y ago
      I’ll be honest, it seems like every even semi-conservative government gets talked about this way, such that even American presidents are compared to Hitler, and at this point I just assume without mountains of evidence that it’s just propaganda and whatever Orban is doing is just unpopular with the left. The left does plenty that I’d call unconstitutional (although the right is catching up), but they’re not talked about as much in the popular media. Just saying, there are probably tens of millions having the same reaction as me. When everyone is called a dictator, don’t be surprised when we yawn when the next person is called a dictator. And some day it might be important to have a useful label like that.
      - toyg 4y ago
        Orbàn is not just "unpopular with the left", but also with moderate centrists like French president Emmanuel Macron. He's been effectively thrown out of the European People's Party, the traditional European right linked to Christian establishment. When you're too crooked even for the ruling elites, you're probably crooked beyond salvation. Sometimes people cry wolf because there is an actual wolf, and refusing to accept it will result in getting eaten.
        epicureanideal 4y ago
        > moderate centrists like French president Emmanuel Macron. But who is also a globalist whereas Orban is not. > even for the ruling elites The ruling globalist elites. The “citizen of anywhere” elites, who are not allies of the “citizens of somewhere” elites, to use Victor Davis Hansen inspired terminology.

ginko 4y ago

I don't see the irony here. Those two cases are barely related other than that both involve Germany.

infamouscow 4y ago
The quote from November 2022 of a German MP saying that Hungary must go along with the laws enacted by the EU commission. It only took a few months for the shoe to be on the other foot. Now it's Germany, rather than Hungary that does not want to comply with EU law.
- znkynz 4y ago
  Its not EU law as yet. EU Members can weild the veto if they choose.
  - arlort 4y ago
    No, they can't on this. This procedure requires "only" QMV. That's not to say it'll definitely pass, but there's no veto https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/voting-calculator/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/... You can play with possible coalitions on this link, to be fair due to its population and the nature of this law germany is de facto a swing vote
- peterfirefly 4y ago
  There is a difference between not complying with something that already is EU law and not agreeing with the other member states during negotiations BEFORE something becomes EU law.
- ginko 4y ago
  The proposed 2035 fossil fuel car ban isn't an existing law. It's in the negotiation stage and Germany is negotiating. This is completely different from Hungary not following laws existing when they joined the EU.
- arlort 4y ago
  The "shoe on the other foot" expression implies that the two situations are the same, or at the very least comparable The situation in hungary is the government violating core principles that stand at the heart of the EU with behaviours that, were Hungary applying for membership right now would see them rejected outright Right now germany is signalling they might vote against a proposed change in ordinary law. That's how laws are made, some actors vote for, some vote against and if there's enough actors in favour the law becomes such and binds all It'd be remotely comparable if Germany were refusing to comply with an adopted law, and even then comparing rule of law principles with commercial regulations would be distasteful at best
- lock-the-spock 4y ago
  Apart from the replies below that these are different issues, the real argument concerning rule of law is that Hungary is receiving EU funds which then flow in shady coffers as the Orban government chooses to not enforce the law of simply sets up intransparent 'legal' but unsound systems. Orban is undermining the basics of democracy and a functioning state to keep in power and get a profit - this is far far away from a discussion about engine types.
  - epicureanideal 4y ago
    I’ll be honest, it seems like every even semi-conservative government gets talked about this way, such that even American presidents are compared to Hitler, and at this point I just assume without mountains of evidence that it’s just propaganda and whatever Orban is doing is just unpopular with the left. The left does plenty that I’d call unconstitutional (although the right is catching up), but they’re not talked about as much in the popular media. Just saying, there are probably tens of millions having the same reaction as me. When everyone is called a dictator, don’t be surprised when we yawn when the next person is called a dictator. And some day it might be important to have a useful label like that.
    - toyg 4y ago
      Orbàn is not just "unpopular with the left", but also with moderate centrists like French president Emmanuel Macron. He's been effectively thrown out of the European People's Party, the traditional European right linked to Christian establishment. When you're too crooked even for the ruling elites, you're probably crooked beyond salvation. Sometimes people cry wolf because there is an actual wolf, and refusing to accept it will result in getting eaten.
      - epicureanideal 4y ago
        > moderate centrists like French president Emmanuel Macron. But who is also a globalist whereas Orban is not. > even for the ruling elites The ruling globalist elites. The “citizen of anywhere” elites, who are not allies of the “citizens of somewhere” elites, to use Victor Davis Hansen inspired terminology.