4 ms·

What makes it so difficult to produce a cellular modem? Complex specification? Lots of edge cases?

j16sdiz 4y ago
and battery life. Intel did it with some firmware / microcode, and it took too much energy.
mzs 4y ago
patents: https://www.qualcomm.com/content/dam/qcomm-martech/dm-assets/documents/qualcomm-5g-handset-licensing-program.pdf https://www.qualcomm.com/content/dam/qcomm-martech/dm-assets...
- mdasen 4y ago
  Does that make it difficult to make a cellular modem or just expensive? Those are two different things. I'm assuming that they were asking why it's so difficult that so few vendors do it and why it's taking Apple so long. For example, Intel had trouble competing with Qualcomm's modems - they were always a generation or two behind. Apple bought Intel's modem business around 3.5 years ago and it looks like it'll take 5 years for them to come out with their first Apple-modem phone - and Apple wasn't starting from scratch. Apple was starting with a billion dollar purchase of Intel's modem business including all that IP, 2,200 Intel modem employees, 17,000 wireless patents, etc. It's gotten to the point that Qualcomm is basically the only game in town for high-end smartphones. Even Samsung who has their own modems went with Qualcomm worldwide for the Galaxy S23 - which they hadn't done for previous models. If it were just a matter of paying money, Apple and Intel would have created a competitive chip quickly.
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    Apple and Qualcomm have been fighting over patents for a decade. I presume Apple is designing their own chip that does not require any licensed tech from Qualcomm, which is what makes it harder.
    - tooltalk 4y ago
      No, these are standard essential patents, meaning that you need to implement Qualcomm's patented features to be compliant.
threeseed 4y ago
I can't find the source. But one reason was that if you take the specification and implement it from scratch you end up with a significantly worse performing solution than simply buying it from Qualcomm. It could also explain why Apple is putting this first in their iPhone SE4 as their users will already expect not to own the fastest phone.
- fsflyer 4y ago
  It's worse than that. Often the specification isn't complete. You need to pass the conformance and interoperability tests. The chipset needs to support older standards as well and pass those tests. I suspect they'll find a number of "quirks" in various equipment, that will need to be worked around and then retested. It's a long process.
xxpor 4y ago
Regardless of the business/legal reasons, they're also just incredibly complex from a technical perspective. The power requirements, the RF side is black magic, the protocol side isn't easy, etc.

and battery life. Intel did it with some firmware / microcode, and it took too much energy.

mzs 4y ago

patents: https://www.qualcomm.com/content/dam/qcomm-martech/dm-assets/documents/qualcomm-5g-handset-licensing-program.pdf https://www.qualcomm.com/content/dam/qcomm-martech/dm-assets...

mdasen 4y ago
Does that make it difficult to make a cellular modem or just expensive? Those are two different things. I'm assuming that they were asking why it's so difficult that so few vendors do it and why it's taking Apple so long. For example, Intel had trouble competing with Qualcomm's modems - they were always a generation or two behind. Apple bought Intel's modem business around 3.5 years ago and it looks like it'll take 5 years for them to come out with their first Apple-modem phone - and Apple wasn't starting from scratch. Apple was starting with a billion dollar purchase of Intel's modem business including all that IP, 2,200 Intel modem employees, 17,000 wireless patents, etc. It's gotten to the point that Qualcomm is basically the only game in town for high-end smartphones. Even Samsung who has their own modems went with Qualcomm worldwide for the Galaxy S23 - which they hadn't done for previous models. If it were just a matter of paying money, Apple and Intel would have created a competitive chip quickly.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  Apple and Qualcomm have been fighting over patents for a decade. I presume Apple is designing their own chip that does not require any licensed tech from Qualcomm, which is what makes it harder.
  - tooltalk 4y ago
    No, these are standard essential patents, meaning that you need to implement Qualcomm's patented features to be compliant.

threeseed 4y ago

I can't find the source. But one reason was that if you take the specification and implement it from scratch you end up with a significantly worse performing solution than simply buying it from Qualcomm. It could also explain why Apple is putting this first in their iPhone SE4 as their users will already expect not to own the fastest phone.

fsflyer 4y ago
It's worse than that. Often the specification isn't complete. You need to pass the conformance and interoperability tests. The chipset needs to support older standards as well and pass those tests. I suspect they'll find a number of "quirks" in various equipment, that will need to be worked around and then retested. It's a long process.

xxpor 4y ago

Regardless of the business/legal reasons, they're also just incredibly complex from a technical perspective. The power requirements, the RF side is black magic, the protocol side isn't easy, etc.