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This misses out on the culture problem. A lot of high schools teach kids they must go to college. Kids feel like failures to consider the route of skilled trad

by mfer 4y ago

This misses out on the culture problem. A lot of high schools teach kids they must go to college. Kids feel like failures to consider the route of skilled trades. Many schools have removed the hands on classes that prep people to be comfortable working with tools and their hands. So, kids have less prep to go out there. There is a culture element to this. > You first have to do 6-12 months in a state-approved trade school (costs $15-20K on average in CA). This isn't everywhere. Many other states have a much simpler setup to get into trades. Sometimes there is a trade school (and sometimes the industry covers the cost). Sometimes you start a job and learn on the job. You take certification tests along the way. What you describe for CA isn't everywhere.

taylodl 4y ago
> What you describe for CA isn't everywhere. It is for electricians. I come from a family of electricians working in many states, including the so-called "red" states. This is the process. It was designed to impede entry into the skilled trades. That may have been a good strategy in another era, but it's not a good strategy now.
paxys 4y ago
Everyone keeps saying this but it doesn't really make sense. People chase money, not social expectations. Heck open up OnlyFans for the perfect example of this. More and more schoolteachers (a historically respectable career) are becoming sex workers (a historically disreputable career) simply because it makes more economic sense. Let's say we do somehow make trades popular and everyone goes to trade school instead of college. What then? Is there magically going to be more state funding for apprenticeship programs? Will there be better union representation? Will states make better laws around workplace injuries? Will wages somehow get higher? (Quite the opposite in fact if more people are entering the profession). You have to fix all this first, and that in turn will lead to better public perception of the profession. It can't be the other way around.
- callmetom 4y ago
  [dead]
- mfer 4y ago
  Most college educated people do not make the salaries that software people do. So, we shouldn't expect that. Making better than the mean or median within the US should be noted. High schoolers don't make decisions on economic realities for themselves. Many will make decisions on economic ideas that often don't match reality. Ideas they are taught through the school systems and that their parents by into as well. I know many people in the trades. Many places in the US are not like CA. Some places it's much cheaper and easier. A lot of people who go through college and get a lot of debt hate their job and only make a median level salary. They did it because they thought that's how you make it. Many would be much happier and make better money in the trades.
- notch898a 4y ago
  People chase net gains. Social standing and achievement, as well as personal satisfaction of say seeing a child learn a new skill, are gains even if not counted in dollars. These are somewhat individual-dependent. Onlyfans has a pretty big personal cost to subtract if you're a family oriented individual from a highly religious community that dislikes nudity, and you value continued social standing in that community. If you're an orphan who for whatever reason has little personal connection to mainstream society, it probably will come at a lower personal cost to you to be seen as a sex worker. So with sex workers, you're probably gonna disproportionately see people with weaker affiliation to mainstream society and/or connection to conventional family members and values. Greater social acceptance of sex workers is the worst possible thing that can happen to the open-minded schoolteacher and others already in the game as it gives the out-group a less-worse comparative cost. Greater acceptance means lower personal cost / barriers to be seen as a sex worker, so wages depress. Eventually if it's seen as no different than working at McDonald's your stuck competing with literally anyone either attractive or charismatic and it becomes more profitable to at least pick something with a higher barrier to entry like teaching.

by mfer 4y ago

taylodl 4y ago

> What you describe for CA isn't everywhere. It is for electricians. I come from a family of electricians working in many states, including the so-called "red" states. This is the process. It was designed to impede entry into the skilled trades. That may have been a good strategy in another era, but it's not a good strategy now.

paxys 4y ago

Everyone keeps saying this but it doesn't really make sense. People chase money, not social expectations. Heck open up OnlyFans for the perfect example of this. More and more schoolteachers (a historically respectable career) are becoming sex workers (a historically disreputable career) simply because it makes more economic sense. Let's say we do somehow make trades popular and everyone goes to trade school instead of college. What then? Is there magically going to be more state funding for apprenticeship programs? Will there be better union representation? Will states make better laws around workplace injuries? Will wages somehow get higher? (Quite the opposite in fact if more people are entering the profession). You have to fix all this first, and that in turn will lead to better public perception of the profession. It can't be the other way around.

callmetom 4y ago
[dead]
mfer 4y ago
Most college educated people do not make the salaries that software people do. So, we shouldn't expect that. Making better than the mean or median within the US should be noted. High schoolers don't make decisions on economic realities for themselves. Many will make decisions on economic ideas that often don't match reality. Ideas they are taught through the school systems and that their parents by into as well. I know many people in the trades. Many places in the US are not like CA. Some places it's much cheaper and easier. A lot of people who go through college and get a lot of debt hate their job and only make a median level salary. They did it because they thought that's how you make it. Many would be much happier and make better money in the trades.
notch898a 4y ago
People chase net gains. Social standing and achievement, as well as personal satisfaction of say seeing a child learn a new skill, are gains even if not counted in dollars. These are somewhat individual-dependent. Onlyfans has a pretty big personal cost to subtract if you're a family oriented individual from a highly religious community that dislikes nudity, and you value continued social standing in that community. If you're an orphan who for whatever reason has little personal connection to mainstream society, it probably will come at a lower personal cost to you to be seen as a sex worker. So with sex workers, you're probably gonna disproportionately see people with weaker affiliation to mainstream society and/or connection to conventional family members and values. Greater social acceptance of sex workers is the worst possible thing that can happen to the open-minded schoolteacher and others already in the game as it gives the out-group a less-worse comparative cost. Greater acceptance means lower personal cost / barriers to be seen as a sex worker, so wages depress. Eventually if it's seen as no different than working at McDonald's your stuck competing with literally anyone either attractive or charismatic and it becomes more profitable to at least pick something with a higher barrier to entry like teaching.