7 ms·

"Your politics hurt my feelings so you and anyone you know is banned from using my service." How is this reasonable to anybody? Left wingers get mad when a bak

"Your politics hurt my feelings so you and anyone you know is banned from using my service." How is this reasonable to anybody? Left wingers get mad when a baker pulls this on a gay couple but apparently it's ok as long as it's against someone they don't like?

howinteresting 4y ago
Well, the specific reasons matter. Surely Airbnb should ban some people because of their political views (eg members of ISIS), the question is just what the line is.
- jonfw 4y ago
  I would argue that ISIS shouldn't be banned for their political views, but rather for their participation in a criminal organization. Punishing people for their political views pushes them towards extremism
  - howinteresting 4y ago
    Fair enough. What about Michael Knowles? He just went up on stage and called for "transgenderism" to be "eradicated" from public life [1]. Apparently, he shadow-quoted a Himmler speech while doing so [2]. For the safety of the Airbnb community and in particular the trans people in it, Airbnb should clearly ban him and his close associates. No? [1] https://mobile.twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1632057198577606657 https://mobile.twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/16320571985... [2] https://mobile.twitter.com/GalenMetzger1/status/1632187691029741569 https://mobile.twitter.com/GalenMetzger1/status/163218769102...
- korroziya 4y ago
  "If ISIS had a streaming service you would be calling your agents," -Ricky Gervais
- dzhiurgis 4y ago
  How soon until you can choose host and guest flavours? What would be the scales then too? Sexual orientation, religion, politics, race, age, gender?
  - howinteresting 4y ago
    Thankfully, we are moral agents with the capacity to decide whether particular forms of discrimination are good or bad.
    - korroziya 4y ago
      10/10 satire.
- chrismcb 4y ago
  Why should they ban some people because of their political views? Why should they ban ISIS members? I can see banning people because those people damaged houses (out had the places damaged during their rental) but not for political views. Whatever happened to "I may not like what you have you say, but I will fight for your right to say it?"
  - howinteresting 4y ago
    LOL, well, at least your view is self-consistent. BTW what happened to the quote frequently misattributed to Voltaire is that the Nazis happened.
harimau777 4y ago
That goes both ways. Many right wing states are currently trying to ban drag shows.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  Do you mean they're trying to ban children from drag shows? Those are very different things. For comparison, consider that the US hasn't banned pornography but has banned children from pornography.
  - danaris 4y ago
    No, Tennessee has banned drag performances, period, with wording that makes it very easy to claim that any trans person in a public place violates it. (Easy enough that it seems likely to me that that's the intent.)
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      Are you talking about this? https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/default.aspx?BillNumber=SB0003&GA=113 https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/default.aspx?BillN... Because it seems pretty explicit that it doesn't apply in places where only adults are allowed. And how could a specification of people "who provide entertainment that appeals to a prurient interest" apply to any trans person in a public place?
      - harimau777 4y ago
        The problem is that it's so broad that it can easily be abused. Many drag performances are not sexual (e.g. drag queen story time). Even those who are sexual are generally no more so than your average pop concert. They are a far cry from something like pornography or strip clubs.
      - danaris 4y ago
        > it doesn't apply in places where only adults are allowed Like...in public. Or in many other places where someone in drag might be. Or in most places that a trans person might be. Drag performances are not inherently sexual, and are not inherently intended only for adults. The idea that they must be sexual in nature is part of the propaganda being spread by conservatives to try to invoke the "think of the children" effect. There are a number of places that have "drag reading times" at libraries that are very popular, just as a quick example.
sjsdaiuasgdia 4y ago
It's the difference between refusing service because of an inherent aspect of someone (like their sexual orientation) and refusing service because someone is choosing to actively broadcast their highly inflammatory opinions.
- colpabar 4y ago
  You know the baker didn’t refuse service and was happy to sell them an already made cake, he just didn’t want to make a cake with a gay couple on it, right? Are you really saying the multiple lawsuits weren't ridiculous?
- jlawson 4y ago
  The cake shop never refused service to anyone because of an inherent aspect of anyone (how would they know?). They'd happily bake a birthday/retirement/graduation cake for a gay person. They refused to use their own artistic talents to inscribe a message that they disagreed with. They refused to participate in the words, not the people. Kind of like you might refuse to make a MAGA cake.
renewiltord 4y ago
In California, political affiliation is nominally a protected category. But not federally. So I think we as a society have decided some things are okay and some aren't and there's no real reason for much of it except rationalization. We've decided that sexual orientation is different from political affiliation and that's it. For instance, how is it reasonable that, in many places, nipple pasties are legal but exposing a nipple is not? It just is.

howinteresting 4y ago

Well, the specific reasons matter. Surely Airbnb should ban some people because of their political views (eg members of ISIS), the question is just what the line is.

jonfw 4y ago
I would argue that ISIS shouldn't be banned for their political views, but rather for their participation in a criminal organization. Punishing people for their political views pushes them towards extremism
- howinteresting 4y ago
  Fair enough. What about Michael Knowles? He just went up on stage and called for "transgenderism" to be "eradicated" from public life [1]. Apparently, he shadow-quoted a Himmler speech while doing so [2]. For the safety of the Airbnb community and in particular the trans people in it, Airbnb should clearly ban him and his close associates. No? [1] https://mobile.twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1632057198577606657 https://mobile.twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/16320571985... [2] https://mobile.twitter.com/GalenMetzger1/status/1632187691029741569 https://mobile.twitter.com/GalenMetzger1/status/163218769102...
korroziya 4y ago
"If ISIS had a streaming service you would be calling your agents," -Ricky Gervais
dzhiurgis 4y ago
How soon until you can choose host and guest flavours? What would be the scales then too? Sexual orientation, religion, politics, race, age, gender?
- howinteresting 4y ago
  Thankfully, we are moral agents with the capacity to decide whether particular forms of discrimination are good or bad.
  - korroziya 4y ago
    10/10 satire.
chrismcb 4y ago
Why should they ban some people because of their political views? Why should they ban ISIS members? I can see banning people because those people damaged houses (out had the places damaged during their rental) but not for political views. Whatever happened to "I may not like what you have you say, but I will fight for your right to say it?"
- howinteresting 4y ago
  LOL, well, at least your view is self-consistent. BTW what happened to the quote frequently misattributed to Voltaire is that the Nazis happened.

harimau777 4y ago

That goes both ways. Many right wing states are currently trying to ban drag shows.

josephcsible 4y ago
Do you mean they're trying to ban children from drag shows? Those are very different things. For comparison, consider that the US hasn't banned pornography but has banned children from pornography.
- danaris 4y ago
  No, Tennessee has banned drag performances, period, with wording that makes it very easy to claim that any trans person in a public place violates it. (Easy enough that it seems likely to me that that's the intent.)
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    Are you talking about this? https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/default.aspx?BillNumber=SB0003&GA=113 https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/default.aspx?BillN... Because it seems pretty explicit that it doesn't apply in places where only adults are allowed. And how could a specification of people "who provide entertainment that appeals to a prurient interest" apply to any trans person in a public place?
    - harimau777 4y ago
      The problem is that it's so broad that it can easily be abused. Many drag performances are not sexual (e.g. drag queen story time). Even those who are sexual are generally no more so than your average pop concert. They are a far cry from something like pornography or strip clubs.
    - danaris 4y ago
      > it doesn't apply in places where only adults are allowed Like...in public. Or in many other places where someone in drag might be. Or in most places that a trans person might be. Drag performances are not inherently sexual, and are not inherently intended only for adults. The idea that they must be sexual in nature is part of the propaganda being spread by conservatives to try to invoke the "think of the children" effect. There are a number of places that have "drag reading times" at libraries that are very popular, just as a quick example.

sjsdaiuasgdia 4y ago

It's the difference between refusing service because of an inherent aspect of someone (like their sexual orientation) and refusing service because someone is choosing to actively broadcast their highly inflammatory opinions.

colpabar 4y ago
You know the baker didn’t refuse service and was happy to sell them an already made cake, he just didn’t want to make a cake with a gay couple on it, right? Are you really saying the multiple lawsuits weren't ridiculous?
jlawson 4y ago
The cake shop never refused service to anyone because of an inherent aspect of anyone (how would they know?). They'd happily bake a birthday/retirement/graduation cake for a gay person. They refused to use their own artistic talents to inscribe a message that they disagreed with. They refused to participate in the words, not the people. Kind of like you might refuse to make a MAGA cake.

renewiltord 4y ago

In California, political affiliation is nominally a protected category. But not federally. So I think we as a society have decided some things are okay and some aren't and there's no real reason for much of it except rationalization. We've decided that sexual orientation is different from political affiliation and that's it. For instance, how is it reasonable that, in many places, nipple pasties are legal but exposing a nipple is not? It just is.