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This is ridiculous. Equating a casual/convenient 10 Duolingo minutes a day with studying a textbook and paying for a teacher is absurd. Your statement of why

This is ridiculous. Equating a casual/convenient 10 Duolingo minutes a day with studying a textbook and paying for a teacher is absurd. Your statement of why Duolingo is successful would equally apply to Rosetta Stone and Babbel, thus it doesn’t address the question. I would never say you could achieve fluency with Duolingo. It’s just a good, fun, way to get the foundation that gives you the confidence to work with a textbook and tutor. Your suggestions are a terrible first step, and nobody has proffered better than Duolingo.

Tainnor 4y ago
> Equating a casual/convenient 10 Duolingo minutes a day with studying a textbook and paying for a teacher is absurd. Exactly. You don't learn a language by doing 10 minutes a day. > Your statement of why Duolingo is successful would equally apply to Rosetta Stone and Babbel, thus it doesn’t address the question. Those services have their problem too and will probably not replace a proper textbooks, but at least Babbel offers proper courses created by actual language teachers that include actual instruction in the grammar of the language. It's more of a virtual textbook than the gamified hellhole that is Duolingo which, incidentally, is why the latter is so much more popular. > Your suggestions are a terrible first step I guess that's just your opinion then. I don't understand why you need to build "confidence" to work with a textbook and a tutor, and I don't even think that Duolingo gives you "confidence".
- comfypotato 4y ago
  I’ve tried your suggestions and they didn’t work where Duolingo did. Maybe “terrible” isn’t the right word in that they work for someone forced into a language (moving to a different country). In that situation, sure, Duolingo would be a bad approach. Confidence, fun, easy, whatever you want to call it: casually learning a new language when you have no pressing reason to do so is where Duolingo shines. The gamified part is an annoyance to me, and definitely doesn’t make it a hellhole. I have to click through a few different activity-screens with some “gem” currency popping up. So what? I don’t know what they’re about, and it doesn’t affect my learning. I’m grateful that someone has supplied me with a structured and organized order in which to learn the basics. All I have to do is sit on my ass for a short period of time a day to make sure I get the active recall that’s most pertinent to my learning. It’s designed from the ground up for mobile, and that’s a perfect medium for my use case. You certainly can learn a language in 10 minutes a day; it just may take 5 years to be fluent enough for a basic/casual conversation. I’m in no rush. Personally I end up spending an hour some days. The rate at which you can learn grows exponentially as you understand more and the process becomes more fun. It’s the beginning where ease/effort of learning are important I can reflect on the past few months I’ve spent learning Hebrew. It was particularly intimidating for me because the alphabet/script is very different. At this point, I can read and confidently pronounce 80% of the words in the language. This has been effortless where other approaches (like the ones you suggested) completely failed. They failed because I’m too lazy to deal with the logistics, but that highlights the success of Duolingo. Most importantly, the speed at which I’m learning relative to the effort I’m putting in is enjoyable to me. And further, an IRL textbook alone is scientifically a terrible idea. Ingraining poor pronunciation (which will necessarily happen without audio) is crippling in the long term.
  - Tainnor 4y ago
    Modern textbooks usually have audio. If not, I would agree. But yes - you should also get a conversation partner. As for the rest of your comment: if Duolingo works for you and your goals, OK. I still would never recommend it to anyone for learning any language and many people in this comment section (as well as on many language forums etc.) agree. People who have been around language learning communities have seen many, many people coming from Duolingo with a totally warped understanding of the language and essentially no progress. Maybe you're an exception or maybe the Hebrew course is particularly good, idk.
    - comfypotato 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - Tainnor 4y ago
        > Get the fuck out of here with your gatekeeping bullshit. I object to the rude tone that you have displayed toward me and toward another commenter here. You seem awfully defensive, I've never written that you shouldn't be allowed to use whatever you prefer, just that I don't recommend doing so. If that's reason enough for you to tell somebody to "fuck off", then I don't see any further reason to engage with you.
        comfypotato 4y ago
        [flagged]
        oska 4y ago
        You deserve a ban for this offensive display of aggression
        comfypotato 4y ago
        [flagged]

Tainnor 4y ago

> Equating a casual/convenient 10 Duolingo minutes a day with studying a textbook and paying for a teacher is absurd. Exactly. You don't learn a language by doing 10 minutes a day. > Your statement of why Duolingo is successful would equally apply to Rosetta Stone and Babbel, thus it doesn’t address the question. Those services have their problem too and will probably not replace a proper textbooks, but at least Babbel offers proper courses created by actual language teachers that include actual instruction in the grammar of the language. It's more of a virtual textbook than the gamified hellhole that is Duolingo which, incidentally, is why the latter is so much more popular. > Your suggestions are a terrible first step I guess that's just your opinion then. I don't understand why you need to build "confidence" to work with a textbook and a tutor, and I don't even think that Duolingo gives you "confidence".

comfypotato 4y ago
I’ve tried your suggestions and they didn’t work where Duolingo did. Maybe “terrible” isn’t the right word in that they work for someone forced into a language (moving to a different country). In that situation, sure, Duolingo would be a bad approach. Confidence, fun, easy, whatever you want to call it: casually learning a new language when you have no pressing reason to do so is where Duolingo shines. The gamified part is an annoyance to me, and definitely doesn’t make it a hellhole. I have to click through a few different activity-screens with some “gem” currency popping up. So what? I don’t know what they’re about, and it doesn’t affect my learning. I’m grateful that someone has supplied me with a structured and organized order in which to learn the basics. All I have to do is sit on my ass for a short period of time a day to make sure I get the active recall that’s most pertinent to my learning. It’s designed from the ground up for mobile, and that’s a perfect medium for my use case. You certainly can learn a language in 10 minutes a day; it just may take 5 years to be fluent enough for a basic/casual conversation. I’m in no rush. Personally I end up spending an hour some days. The rate at which you can learn grows exponentially as you understand more and the process becomes more fun. It’s the beginning where ease/effort of learning are important I can reflect on the past few months I’ve spent learning Hebrew. It was particularly intimidating for me because the alphabet/script is very different. At this point, I can read and confidently pronounce 80% of the words in the language. This has been effortless where other approaches (like the ones you suggested) completely failed. They failed because I’m too lazy to deal with the logistics, but that highlights the success of Duolingo. Most importantly, the speed at which I’m learning relative to the effort I’m putting in is enjoyable to me. And further, an IRL textbook alone is scientifically a terrible idea. Ingraining poor pronunciation (which will necessarily happen without audio) is crippling in the long term.
- Tainnor 4y ago
  Modern textbooks usually have audio. If not, I would agree. But yes - you should also get a conversation partner. As for the rest of your comment: if Duolingo works for you and your goals, OK. I still would never recommend it to anyone for learning any language and many people in this comment section (as well as on many language forums etc.) agree. People who have been around language learning communities have seen many, many people coming from Duolingo with a totally warped understanding of the language and essentially no progress. Maybe you're an exception or maybe the Hebrew course is particularly good, idk.
  - comfypotato 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - Tainnor 4y ago
      > Get the fuck out of here with your gatekeeping bullshit. I object to the rude tone that you have displayed toward me and toward another commenter here. You seem awfully defensive, I've never written that you shouldn't be allowed to use whatever you prefer, just that I don't recommend doing so. If that's reason enough for you to tell somebody to "fuck off", then I don't see any further reason to engage with you.
      - comfypotato 4y ago
        [flagged]
        oska 4y ago
        You deserve a ban for this offensive display of aggression
        comfypotato 4y ago
        [flagged]