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There’s a lot of negativity towards Duolingo in this post, and this is the top comment, so I might as well choose here to defend it. Nobody has proffered a bet

There’s a lot of negativity towards Duolingo in this post, and this is the top comment, so I might as well choose here to defend it. Nobody has proffered a better alternative. There’s just a lot of complaining. It’s pretty clearly implied by the nature of the complaints that Duolingo is one of, if not the, best way to develop a foundation for a new language. Being able to slowly develop correct pronunciation and the skills to read a new alphabet is nice. It feels effortless with Duolingo. Moving past basic grammar will take additional work outside of the app, but I would posit that it’s the early stages that are more likely to stop someone from learning a language. That’s where Duolingo excels. Language learning is extremely difficult, especially later in life, and Duolingo makes the most intimidating parts easy. Personally I’m looking forward to language-learning conversationalists based on ChatGPT for conversation practice.

watwut 4y ago
I agree. Plus, I grew to actually like the path. I spend less time strategizing over what should I do next or feeling torn between reparation and progress. Turned out that the only reason I wanted the tree was that I could strategize over 2x bonus better ... which has zero to do with learning too. I found myself more engaged after change to path.
vintermann 4y ago
Have you tried it? Obviously it won't be as structured as proper teaching, but I suspect that cajoling it into being a helpful language practice partner should be possible even as it is today. It's language skills are crazy impressive. I've found there's no reason to not interact with it in my native language, it speaks and understands it just as well as English - and that was definitively not the case with earlier incarnations of GPT that I have tried.
- comfypotato 4y ago
  I meant a version that had text to speech and speech to text incorporated so that you could actually talk to it. I hadn’t considered textual conversations. That’s a good idea. Personally I’m learning a couple of languages with foreign alphabets, so I’m really still in the stages of just learning the alphabets. (And Duolingo makes it possible by being casual and convenient.)
Tainnor 4y ago
> Nobody has proffered a better alternative. Buy a textbook and get a teacher/tutor. Study vocab with an SRS (such as Anki or many others). Watch movies and TV shows, read books (for beginners at first). Listen to dialogues and shadow them for better pronunciation and fluidity. And so on. Even most alternatives in the app space (Babbel, Rosetta Stone, etc.) are arguably better than Duolingo. Duolingo is successful because there's more people who like the idea of speaking another language than people who actually like the process of learning a language.
- comfypotato 4y ago
  This is ridiculous. Equating a casual/convenient 10 Duolingo minutes a day with studying a textbook and paying for a teacher is absurd. Your statement of why Duolingo is successful would equally apply to Rosetta Stone and Babbel, thus it doesn’t address the question. I would never say you could achieve fluency with Duolingo. It’s just a good, fun, way to get the foundation that gives you the confidence to work with a textbook and tutor. Your suggestions are a terrible first step, and nobody has proffered better than Duolingo.
  - Tainnor 4y ago
    > Equating a casual/convenient 10 Duolingo minutes a day with studying a textbook and paying for a teacher is absurd. Exactly. You don't learn a language by doing 10 minutes a day. > Your statement of why Duolingo is successful would equally apply to Rosetta Stone and Babbel, thus it doesn’t address the question. Those services have their problem too and will probably not replace a proper textbooks, but at least Babbel offers proper courses created by actual language teachers that include actual instruction in the grammar of the language. It's more of a virtual textbook than the gamified hellhole that is Duolingo which, incidentally, is why the latter is so much more popular. > Your suggestions are a terrible first step I guess that's just your opinion then. I don't understand why you need to build "confidence" to work with a textbook and a tutor, and I don't even think that Duolingo gives you "confidence".
    - comfypotato 4y ago
kjerzyk 4y ago
Alternative: watch native content. Start with easy short content, build up to vlogs, series, movies. The idea of 'convenient 10 minutes a day' will get you nowhere. People who seriously want to learn a language know it takes 1-2-3 hours of daily immersion. The only way '10 minutes a day' would work is if you lived in a country, were surrounded by the language and only counted 10 minutes you spend reviewing a grammar book. What all those tools want are users who pay regularly. So if they taught you a language well you'd be gone in a year or two. Duolingo can is great at teaching you a language if you then had to use that language in Duolingo.
- comfypotato 4y ago
  Are you joking? Starting to learn a language by watching native content? Get out of here with your bullshit. And fuck you for implying I don’t actually want to learn a language on a thread defending a language learning app. Getting to the point that you can consume media and actually learn a language is the hard part. That’s where Duolingo excels. Obviously fluency takes additional work. Duolingo’s lessons for foreign alphabets are perfect examples. Some are better than others, but they all teach you how to read the script in a fun and time-manageable way. This aspect of Duolingo is free, fun, and it works. I’ve made multiple attempts to learn languages with foreign alphabets before, and they’ve failed because of the logistics of studying the basics. Practicing and consuming content once you can function in the language is different, and it requires a different kind of motivation. I’ve never struggled with picking up additional vocab or grammar once the initial hurdles were overcome.
  - kjerzyk 4y ago
    First of - rude. Why would you post something like this on a comment that was actually trying to share some tips with you? I kind of want to ignore it now and say 'well good luck then' but at the same time I want to ignore it and actually give you some advice. That's how I started with language learning. There are channels that are dedicated to native content that's easy to understand. For example: Dreaming Spanish. You listen to content in you target language and learn sentence structure and vocabulary. You asked 'is there alternative to Duolingo' and I gave you one. In return I got abuse. Not sure this was worth it.

watwut 4y ago

I agree. Plus, I grew to actually like the path. I spend less time strategizing over what should I do next or feeling torn between reparation and progress. Turned out that the only reason I wanted the tree was that I could strategize over 2x bonus better ... which has zero to do with learning too. I found myself more engaged after change to path.

vintermann 4y ago

Have you tried it? Obviously it won't be as structured as proper teaching, but I suspect that cajoling it into being a helpful language practice partner should be possible even as it is today. It's language skills are crazy impressive. I've found there's no reason to not interact with it in my native language, it speaks and understands it just as well as English - and that was definitively not the case with earlier incarnations of GPT that I have tried.

comfypotato 4y ago
I meant a version that had text to speech and speech to text incorporated so that you could actually talk to it. I hadn’t considered textual conversations. That’s a good idea. Personally I’m learning a couple of languages with foreign alphabets, so I’m really still in the stages of just learning the alphabets. (And Duolingo makes it possible by being casual and convenient.)

Tainnor 4y ago

> Nobody has proffered a better alternative. Buy a textbook and get a teacher/tutor. Study vocab with an SRS (such as Anki or many others). Watch movies and TV shows, read books (for beginners at first). Listen to dialogues and shadow them for better pronunciation and fluidity. And so on. Even most alternatives in the app space (Babbel, Rosetta Stone, etc.) are arguably better than Duolingo. Duolingo is successful because there's more people who like the idea of speaking another language than people who actually like the process of learning a language.

comfypotato 4y ago
This is ridiculous. Equating a casual/convenient 10 Duolingo minutes a day with studying a textbook and paying for a teacher is absurd. Your statement of why Duolingo is successful would equally apply to Rosetta Stone and Babbel, thus it doesn’t address the question. I would never say you could achieve fluency with Duolingo. It’s just a good, fun, way to get the foundation that gives you the confidence to work with a textbook and tutor. Your suggestions are a terrible first step, and nobody has proffered better than Duolingo.
- Tainnor 4y ago
  > Equating a casual/convenient 10 Duolingo minutes a day with studying a textbook and paying for a teacher is absurd. Exactly. You don't learn a language by doing 10 minutes a day. > Your statement of why Duolingo is successful would equally apply to Rosetta Stone and Babbel, thus it doesn’t address the question. Those services have their problem too and will probably not replace a proper textbooks, but at least Babbel offers proper courses created by actual language teachers that include actual instruction in the grammar of the language. It's more of a virtual textbook than the gamified hellhole that is Duolingo which, incidentally, is why the latter is so much more popular. > Your suggestions are a terrible first step I guess that's just your opinion then. I don't understand why you need to build "confidence" to work with a textbook and a tutor, and I don't even think that Duolingo gives you "confidence".
  - comfypotato 4y ago

kjerzyk 4y ago

Alternative: watch native content. Start with easy short content, build up to vlogs, series, movies. The idea of 'convenient 10 minutes a day' will get you nowhere. People who seriously want to learn a language know it takes 1-2-3 hours of daily immersion. The only way '10 minutes a day' would work is if you lived in a country, were surrounded by the language and only counted 10 minutes you spend reviewing a grammar book. What all those tools want are users who pay regularly. So if they taught you a language well you'd be gone in a year or two. Duolingo can is great at teaching you a language if you then had to use that language in Duolingo.

comfypotato 4y ago
Are you joking? Starting to learn a language by watching native content? Get out of here with your bullshit. And fuck you for implying I don’t actually want to learn a language on a thread defending a language learning app. Getting to the point that you can consume media and actually learn a language is the hard part. That’s where Duolingo excels. Obviously fluency takes additional work. Duolingo’s lessons for foreign alphabets are perfect examples. Some are better than others, but they all teach you how to read the script in a fun and time-manageable way. This aspect of Duolingo is free, fun, and it works. I’ve made multiple attempts to learn languages with foreign alphabets before, and they’ve failed because of the logistics of studying the basics. Practicing and consuming content once you can function in the language is different, and it requires a different kind of motivation. I’ve never struggled with picking up additional vocab or grammar once the initial hurdles were overcome.
- kjerzyk 4y ago
  First of - rude. Why would you post something like this on a comment that was actually trying to share some tips with you? I kind of want to ignore it now and say 'well good luck then' but at the same time I want to ignore it and actually give you some advice. That's how I started with language learning. There are channels that are dedicated to native content that's easy to understand. For example: Dreaming Spanish. You listen to content in you target language and learn sentence structure and vocabulary. You asked 'is there alternative to Duolingo' and I gave you one. In return I got abuse. Not sure this was worth it.