3 ms·

FBI chief Wray confirms agency’s belief Covid came from Chinese lab leak

7 points by hammock 4y ago

NVHacker 4y ago
This is a bit like those research papers that "prove" the obvious. Better late than never I suppose.
- ggm 4y ago
  This is a highly politicized response, and has medium confidence as a fiat declaration. Virologists don't believe this, based on genomic testing of the strains and prior experience. Wet market emergence is (in their eyes) as, or more likely. We may never know. Right now? this is a message directed at US domestic political circumstances, its not really revealing of anything and it is far from "proven" His reasoning is classified.
  - t0bia_s 4y ago
    > Virologists don't believe this, based on genomic testing of the strains and prior experience. Any source info about this?
    - ggm 4y ago
      https://theconversation.com/heres-how-scientists-know-the-coronavirus-came-from-bats-and-wasnt-made-in-a-lab-141850 https://theconversation.com/heres-how-scientists-know-the-co... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9 https://virological.org/t/the-comparative-recency-of-the-proximal-ancestors-of-sars-cov-1-and-sars-cov-2/906 https://virological.org/t/the-comparative-recency-of-the-pro...
      - t0bia_s 4y ago
        Thanks. There are studies with different conclusion. https://zenodo.org/record/4477081 https://zenodo.org/record/4477081 https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fviro.2022.834808/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fviro.2022.8348... https://arkmedic.substack.com/p/absolute-proof-the-gp-120-sequences https://arkmedic.substack.com/p/absolute-proof-the-gp-120-se... https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Evidence-which-Suggests-that-This-Is-No-Evolved-S%C3%B8rensen-Dalgleish/bae0b5f2cae9f55b0f72349e7964989641a2d71d https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Evidence-which-Sug... Also, virologist who tried to discredit the lab leak theory was once a ‘partner’ to EcoHealth Alliance (study you posted above): https://usrtk.org/covid-19-origins/anti-lab-leak-virologist-ecohealth-alliance-partner/ https://usrtk.org/covid-19-origins/anti-lab-leak-virologist-...
    - salawat 4y ago
      Note that the Director of the FBI is generally someone who has been in law enforcement long enough to have internalized the fact that everyone lies when their own freedom is at risk. Which a virologist's would be in the face of having their acceptable research avenues cut down. So take the "prior experience" with a grain of salt, and remember you're dealing with people at the end of the day here. The image of the "noble, selfless, untarnished scientist" frequently falls short of mark in reality.
      - t0bia_s 4y ago
        Politicization of science leads to overall distrust in everything. Which is good if we suppose to "trust" in science without observable evidence. Same logic could be applied to consuming news.
      - jfengel 4y ago
        Generally, yes. This particular FBI director spent most of his time in private practice, representing foreign gas and oil interests. The closest he came to law enforcement is resigning over illegal surveillance.
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  Interesting timing btw. Right after spy balloons. Pure information warfare.
trabant00 4y ago
For a lot of people this has been the simplest and therefore the most likely explanation for a long time. But what are the implications that now it's a somewhat official position of several US agencies? Will China be asked for reparations? Will they be asked to allow external audits of their labs? Something else?
- frupert52 4y ago
  I think you might find that labs like the one in Wuhan are or were being operated at arms length by US companies and individuals anyway. I doubt much will happen here, maybe some funding cuts
h2odragon 4y ago
Not that new information has come to light; but because the existing information can now be interpreted this way without "seeming to support the wrong political side."
dsq 4y ago
At one point when at work, I raised the possibility of a lab leak. My friend, whom i usually consider open minded, immediately burst out with “conspiracy theorist!”. Now the FBI director thinks the same.

7 points by hammock 4y ago

NVHacker 4y ago

This is a bit like those research papers that "prove" the obvious. Better late than never I suppose.

ggm 4y ago
This is a highly politicized response, and has medium confidence as a fiat declaration. Virologists don't believe this, based on genomic testing of the strains and prior experience. Wet market emergence is (in their eyes) as, or more likely. We may never know. Right now? this is a message directed at US domestic political circumstances, its not really revealing of anything and it is far from "proven" His reasoning is classified.
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  > Virologists don't believe this, based on genomic testing of the strains and prior experience. Any source info about this?
  - ggm 4y ago
    https://theconversation.com/heres-how-scientists-know-the-coronavirus-came-from-bats-and-wasnt-made-in-a-lab-141850 https://theconversation.com/heres-how-scientists-know-the-co... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9 https://virological.org/t/the-comparative-recency-of-the-proximal-ancestors-of-sars-cov-1-and-sars-cov-2/906 https://virological.org/t/the-comparative-recency-of-the-pro...
    - t0bia_s 4y ago
      Thanks. There are studies with different conclusion. https://zenodo.org/record/4477081 https://zenodo.org/record/4477081 https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fviro.2022.834808/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fviro.2022.8348... https://arkmedic.substack.com/p/absolute-proof-the-gp-120-sequences https://arkmedic.substack.com/p/absolute-proof-the-gp-120-se... https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Evidence-which-Suggests-that-This-Is-No-Evolved-S%C3%B8rensen-Dalgleish/bae0b5f2cae9f55b0f72349e7964989641a2d71d https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Evidence-which-Sug... Also, virologist who tried to discredit the lab leak theory was once a ‘partner’ to EcoHealth Alliance (study you posted above): https://usrtk.org/covid-19-origins/anti-lab-leak-virologist-ecohealth-alliance-partner/ https://usrtk.org/covid-19-origins/anti-lab-leak-virologist-...
  - salawat 4y ago
    Note that the Director of the FBI is generally someone who has been in law enforcement long enough to have internalized the fact that everyone lies when their own freedom is at risk. Which a virologist's would be in the face of having their acceptable research avenues cut down. So take the "prior experience" with a grain of salt, and remember you're dealing with people at the end of the day here. The image of the "noble, selfless, untarnished scientist" frequently falls short of mark in reality.
    - t0bia_s 4y ago
      Politicization of science leads to overall distrust in everything. Which is good if we suppose to "trust" in science without observable evidence. Same logic could be applied to consuming news.
    - jfengel 4y ago
      Generally, yes. This particular FBI director spent most of his time in private practice, representing foreign gas and oil interests. The closest he came to law enforcement is resigning over illegal surveillance.
t0bia_s 4y ago
Interesting timing btw. Right after spy balloons. Pure information warfare.

trabant00 4y ago

For a lot of people this has been the simplest and therefore the most likely explanation for a long time. But what are the implications that now it's a somewhat official position of several US agencies? Will China be asked for reparations? Will they be asked to allow external audits of their labs? Something else?

frupert52 4y ago
I think you might find that labs like the one in Wuhan are or were being operated at arms length by US companies and individuals anyway. I doubt much will happen here, maybe some funding cuts

h2odragon 4y ago

Not that new information has come to light; but because the existing information can now be interpreted this way without "seeming to support the wrong political side."

dsq 4y ago

At one point when at work, I raised the possibility of a lab leak. My friend, whom i usually consider open minded, immediately burst out with “conspiracy theorist!”. Now the FBI director thinks the same.