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> The universities were complicit, in that they charged exorbitant amounts of money... Get rid of bullshit colleges that offer no promise of a bright future. T
by a_puppy 4y ago
> The universities were complicit, in that they charged exorbitant amounts of money... Get rid of bullshit colleges that offer no promise of a bright future.
That's a great idea, but student loan forgiveness doesn't do that! It does nothing to hold the universities accountable. On the contrary, it enables universities to keep doing what they're currently doing!
My view is that _someone_ needs to hold universities accountable:
- Under the current system, students are theoretically holding universities accountable. When students choose a university, they (in theory) consider how valuable the education is to them personally, and balance that against how much they would have to pay. This is a decision that each student makes personally, and they personally pay the costs and personally receive the benefits.
- But if we don't think students are able to make that decision, then someone else (e.g. the government) needs to hold universities accountable instead. For example, the government might put a cap on how much money universities can charge students, or put restrictions on universities offering degrees in fields that society considers less valuable.
The problem with the student loan forgiveness plan is that _nobody_ is holding the universities accountable. Students have no incentive to consider the cost of tuition, if the taxpayer will ultimately foot the bill; but taxpayers won't get any say in whether the degree is worth it or not.
> As a society we should agree that paying for education is absurd
Right now, a lot of the benefits of education go to the student, in the form of higher salaries and higher social status. As long as that continues to be the case, I think it's only fair that students should be expected to pay for it.
- than3 4y agoThere's some serious issues with what you propose. > Under the current system... holding universities accountable. No, universities are not accountable, they have optimized for repeat customers just like books, and now the autograders for the online class systems. There's almost no bargaining power here. Its a take it or leave it system. > But if we don't think students are able to make that decision. We already covered this under the previous statement. The decision doesn't do anything. > The problem with student loan forgiveness... The problem is there's no risk for the loan originators, you can't discharge the debt in bankruptcy court, even if there's fraud at the university, you are still responsible for paying the enron amounts. Its debt slavery for life until you can pay it off. > Right now a lot of benefits go to the student. Have you looked at graduation rates? Some of the better colleges are slightly above 25%, and don't get me started on the weed out/dropout factory classes they allow the teachers to structure. Ever seen a 3 unit class that requires 30 hours a week of study with a probability of passing that may be 0.3%^25th power, or negative because of defective Pearson Vue autograders... with Khan Academy lectures to the modules linked instead of the teacher actually lecturing? Seriously I can't make this up, just withdrew from it ($1,000 in books/tuition/material at week 4 80% of the class is failing). Absolute ridiculousness. If you want to fix education, you kick them in the gut where it hurts, the money.
- a_puppy 4y ago> No, universities are not accountable ... If you want to fix education, you kick them in the gut where it hurts, the money. I agree! Universities today are dysfunctional, and the current system of "expect students to hold universities accountable by refusing to attend dysfunctional universities" doesn't seem to be working. My point is that _someone_ needs to be holding universities accountable, but the student loan forgiveness plan effectively means even less accountability for universities than they already have.
- dudul 4y agoHow is loan forgiveness addressing any of these?
- throwntoday 4y agoIt's the first step to give people a chance to breathe. Debt weights heavy on people whether they actively think about it or not. I would hope it's not an "I got mine" situation, and the people fighting for cancellation continue the battle towards free education.