9 ms·

I just want to point out that, in the US, it is illegal to not rent to families. More specifically, it is illegal to discriminate based on familial status. Whet

I just want to point out that, in the US, it is illegal to not rent to families. More specifically, it is illegal to discriminate based on familial status. Whether anyone is actually enforcing that in a particular area may be a different matter.

mbesto 4y ago
That's not what the parent comment was saying. They were saying that there is a reasonable explanation to not develop properties that cater to families - e.g. 4 bedrooms. The alternative is that the 4-bedroom that you conceivably might construct would rent out to 4 individuals who would split the bill...which also introduces a whole bunch of other challenges. Overall point still seems valid - which is there is little financial advantage to renting out a 4-bedroom property and thus a limited supply.
- medler 4y ago
  They said “they have a rule that they’ll never buy large apartments *and they’ll never rent to families*.” The second part is the illegal discrimination.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - chongli 4y ago
    People get around this by never putting themselves in the position of having to refuse. If, as a landlord, you only ever buy single bedroom apartments and studios, you aren’t going to run into families that need 4 bedrooms. It’s not illegal for the landlord to discriminate as to what sort of properties they buy.
    - medler 4y ago
      I mean, gp recounted a story about someone who has a policy against renting to families, so so it sounds like they do refuse sometimes. Also, where I live, lots of families live in one or two bedroom apartments.
Johnny555 4y ago
Whether anyone is actually enforcing that in a particular area may be a different matter. And whether or not it actually is enforceable is yet another. Who would know if a small landlord passed over an applicant because they had a family? Maybe big landlords could be monitored, but I’ve Had a single rental house for 5 years and I’ve been through 2 tenants in that time, no one could detect any trends in that small sample.
- lynx23 4y ago
  It is weird to force a landlord to take customers they know they don't want. Especially when it comes to renting, where the behaviour of your customers does make a big difference. Looking at my current house, we have 10 appartments, and one family. Guess who is contributing to the noise the most? If I were a landlord, I'd also not take any families.
  - ryan_j_naughton 4y ago
    > It is weird to force a landlord to take customers they know they don't want. What you call "weird" others call discrimination. Many racist folks didn't want to rent to black people or other minorities bc they "didn't want them". Others didn't want to rent to see senior citizens or people with disabilities. Protected classes exist for a reason! It is socially optimal to not allow businesses to discriminate against many groups of people.
    - htag 4y ago
      There's also an incredibly high bar to prove housing discrimination. It's not like all housing applications are reviewed by an enforcement agency and statistical anomalies in approval rates are investigated. Protected classes are really only protected from the most blatant forms of discrimination.
    - luckylion 4y ago
      Is the opposite disallowed in the US? In Germany, we have plenty of housing coops and state run builders that e.g. discriminate against single (young?) men. I've tried half a dozen of these not-for-profit entities before I found one that said "we don't care who you are. If you want to live here and you can pay the rent, we're fine with it". The "no discrimination allowed" is often just "no discrimination allowed that we don't approve of".
raducu 4y ago
> it is illegal to discriminate based on familial status. I think the point was why you can't find 4 bedroom apartments for rent. People don't want to rent to families, they don't buy 4 bedroom apartments and they don't rent them. It's not that they actively discriminate against families, they just don't buy properties that would cater to families.
- BizarroLand 4y ago
  I am not a landlord and probably won't ever be one, but looking at it from a financial standpoint, it seems smarter to have 2 2br 1ba apartments for rent than 1 4br 2ba apartment. They would take up roughly the same space, albeit maybe with smaller rooms, but 2 $1500 incomes would provide a more stable income than 1 $3,000 apartment if for no other reason than it is unlikely both tenants would leave at the same time. Worst case you drop to $1,500 for a month or so instead of losing all $3,000 income while you wait for a new tenant to appear.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    > They would take up roughly the same space Each apartment has 1 bedroom, 1 living room, 1 entryway.
  - rswskg 4y ago
    Because you are maintaining two boilers, heating systems, plumbing, etc.
abduhl 4y ago
While you’re generally correct it’s important to note that the Fair Housing Act’s discrimination provisions don’t apply to all housing so it is actually sometimes legal to discriminate based on familial status. It’s probably not relevant here because we’re talking apartments it seems (although a 4BR is a huge apartment).
runamok 4y ago
Huh, TIL. https://rentprep.com/blog/legal/landlords-refuse-rent-families-children/ https://rentprep.com/blog/legal/landlords-refuse-rent-famili...

mbesto 4y ago

That's not what the parent comment was saying. They were saying that there is a reasonable explanation to not develop properties that cater to families - e.g. 4 bedrooms. The alternative is that the 4-bedroom that you conceivably might construct would rent out to 4 individuals who would split the bill...which also introduces a whole bunch of other challenges. Overall point still seems valid - which is there is little financial advantage to renting out a 4-bedroom property and thus a limited supply.

medler 4y ago
They said “they have a rule that they’ll never buy large apartments *and they’ll never rent to families*.” The second part is the illegal discrimination.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- chongli 4y ago
  People get around this by never putting themselves in the position of having to refuse. If, as a landlord, you only ever buy single bedroom apartments and studios, you aren’t going to run into families that need 4 bedrooms. It’s not illegal for the landlord to discriminate as to what sort of properties they buy.
  - medler 4y ago
    I mean, gp recounted a story about someone who has a policy against renting to families, so so it sounds like they do refuse sometimes. Also, where I live, lots of families live in one or two bedroom apartments.

Johnny555 4y ago

Whether anyone is actually enforcing that in a particular area may be a different matter. And whether or not it actually is enforceable is yet another. Who would know if a small landlord passed over an applicant because they had a family? Maybe big landlords could be monitored, but I’ve Had a single rental house for 5 years and I’ve been through 2 tenants in that time, no one could detect any trends in that small sample.

lynx23 4y ago
It is weird to force a landlord to take customers they know they don't want. Especially when it comes to renting, where the behaviour of your customers does make a big difference. Looking at my current house, we have 10 appartments, and one family. Guess who is contributing to the noise the most? If I were a landlord, I'd also not take any families.
- ryan_j_naughton 4y ago
  > It is weird to force a landlord to take customers they know they don't want. What you call "weird" others call discrimination. Many racist folks didn't want to rent to black people or other minorities bc they "didn't want them". Others didn't want to rent to see senior citizens or people with disabilities. Protected classes exist for a reason! It is socially optimal to not allow businesses to discriminate against many groups of people.
  - htag 4y ago
    There's also an incredibly high bar to prove housing discrimination. It's not like all housing applications are reviewed by an enforcement agency and statistical anomalies in approval rates are investigated. Protected classes are really only protected from the most blatant forms of discrimination.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    Is the opposite disallowed in the US? In Germany, we have plenty of housing coops and state run builders that e.g. discriminate against single (young?) men. I've tried half a dozen of these not-for-profit entities before I found one that said "we don't care who you are. If you want to live here and you can pay the rent, we're fine with it". The "no discrimination allowed" is often just "no discrimination allowed that we don't approve of".

raducu 4y ago

> it is illegal to discriminate based on familial status. I think the point was why you can't find 4 bedroom apartments for rent. People don't want to rent to families, they don't buy 4 bedroom apartments and they don't rent them. It's not that they actively discriminate against families, they just don't buy properties that would cater to families.

BizarroLand 4y ago
I am not a landlord and probably won't ever be one, but looking at it from a financial standpoint, it seems smarter to have 2 2br 1ba apartments for rent than 1 4br 2ba apartment. They would take up roughly the same space, albeit maybe with smaller rooms, but 2 $1500 incomes would provide a more stable income than 1 $3,000 apartment if for no other reason than it is unlikely both tenants would leave at the same time. Worst case you drop to $1,500 for a month or so instead of losing all $3,000 income while you wait for a new tenant to appear.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  > They would take up roughly the same space Each apartment has 1 bedroom, 1 living room, 1 entryway.
- rswskg 4y ago
  Because you are maintaining two boilers, heating systems, plumbing, etc.

abduhl 4y ago

While you’re generally correct it’s important to note that the Fair Housing Act’s discrimination provisions don’t apply to all housing so it is actually sometimes legal to discriminate based on familial status. It’s probably not relevant here because we’re talking apartments it seems (although a 4BR is a huge apartment).

runamok 4y ago

Huh, TIL. https://rentprep.com/blog/legal/landlords-refuse-rent-families-children/ https://rentprep.com/blog/legal/landlords-refuse-rent-famili...