7 ms·

I have friend who own apartments for rent. They have a rule that they’ll never buy large apartments and they’ll never rent to families. Their reasoning was that

by rcme 4y ago

I have friend who own apartments for rent. They have a rule that they’ll never buy large apartments and they’ll never rent to families. Their reasoning was that: 1. Families who rent are likely unstable because, all else equal, a family would prefer to own due to the stability owning provides. 2. It’s too heartbreaking to evict a family. Just a random anecdote

aclatuts 4y ago
People rent detached homes to families all the time. My sister does it and I live next to a family who rents a detached home. Why would the viewpoint of owners be any different with renting apartments to families??
- luckylion 4y ago
  Detached homes are more isolated noise-wise, that's often not the case in apartments. If you rent out apartments, you want low-trouble tenants, not someone you might get a lot complaints about. That's also why many try to exclude people with dogs, they don't want to deal with dogs howling all day and neighbors complaining.
leguminous 4y ago
I just want to point out that, in the US, it is illegal to not rent to families. More specifically, it is illegal to discriminate based on familial status. Whether anyone is actually enforcing that in a particular area may be a different matter.
- mbesto 4y ago
  That's not what the parent comment was saying. They were saying that there is a reasonable explanation to not develop properties that cater to families - e.g. 4 bedrooms. The alternative is that the 4-bedroom that you conceivably might construct would rent out to 4 individuals who would split the bill...which also introduces a whole bunch of other challenges. Overall point still seems valid - which is there is little financial advantage to renting out a 4-bedroom property and thus a limited supply.
  - medler 4y ago
    They said “they have a rule that they’ll never buy large apartments *and they’ll never rent to families*.” The second part is the illegal discrimination.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - chongli 4y ago
      People get around this by never putting themselves in the position of having to refuse. If, as a landlord, you only ever buy single bedroom apartments and studios, you aren’t going to run into families that need 4 bedrooms. It’s not illegal for the landlord to discriminate as to what sort of properties they buy.
      - medler 4y ago
        I mean, gp recounted a story about someone who has a policy against renting to families, so so it sounds like they do refuse sometimes. Also, where I live, lots of families live in one or two bedroom apartments.
- Johnny555 4y ago
  Whether anyone is actually enforcing that in a particular area may be a different matter. And whether or not it actually is enforceable is yet another. Who would know if a small landlord passed over an applicant because they had a family? Maybe big landlords could be monitored, but I’ve Had a single rental house for 5 years and I’ve been through 2 tenants in that time, no one could detect any trends in that small sample.
  - lynx23 4y ago
    It is weird to force a landlord to take customers they know they don't want. Especially when it comes to renting, where the behaviour of your customers does make a big difference. Looking at my current house, we have 10 appartments, and one family. Guess who is contributing to the noise the most? If I were a landlord, I'd also not take any families.
    - ryan_j_naughton 4y ago
      > It is weird to force a landlord to take customers they know they don't want. What you call "weird" others call discrimination. Many racist folks didn't want to rent to black people or other minorities bc they "didn't want them". Others didn't want to rent to see senior citizens or people with disabilities. Protected classes exist for a reason! It is socially optimal to not allow businesses to discriminate against many groups of people.
      - htag 4y ago
        There's also an incredibly high bar to prove housing discrimination. It's not like all housing applications are reviewed by an enforcement agency and statistical anomalies in approval rates are investigated. Protected classes are really only protected from the most blatant forms of discrimination.
      - luckylion 4y ago
        Is the opposite disallowed in the US? In Germany, we have plenty of housing coops and state run builders that e.g. discriminate against single (young?) men. I've tried half a dozen of these not-for-profit entities before I found one that said "we don't care who you are. If you want to live here and you can pay the rent, we're fine with it". The "no discrimination allowed" is often just "no discrimination allowed that we don't approve of".
- raducu 4y ago
  > it is illegal to discriminate based on familial status. I think the point was why you can't find 4 bedroom apartments for rent. People don't want to rent to families, they don't buy 4 bedroom apartments and they don't rent them. It's not that they actively discriminate against families, they just don't buy properties that would cater to families.
  - BizarroLand 4y ago
    I am not a landlord and probably won't ever be one, but looking at it from a financial standpoint, it seems smarter to have 2 2br 1ba apartments for rent than 1 4br 2ba apartment. They would take up roughly the same space, albeit maybe with smaller rooms, but 2 $1500 incomes would provide a more stable income than 1 $3,000 apartment if for no other reason than it is unlikely both tenants would leave at the same time. Worst case you drop to $1,500 for a month or so instead of losing all $3,000 income while you wait for a new tenant to appear.
    - wolverine876 4y ago
      > They would take up roughly the same space Each apartment has 1 bedroom, 1 living room, 1 entryway.
    - rswskg 4y ago
      Because you are maintaining two boilers, heating systems, plumbing, etc.
- abduhl 4y ago
  While you’re generally correct it’s important to note that the Fair Housing Act’s discrimination provisions don’t apply to all housing so it is actually sometimes legal to discriminate based on familial status. It’s probably not relevant here because we’re talking apartments it seems (although a 4BR is a huge apartment).
- runamok 4y ago
  Huh, TIL. https://rentprep.com/blog/legal/landlords-refuse-rent-families-children/ https://rentprep.com/blog/legal/landlords-refuse-rent-famili...
carom 4y ago
Additionally, families can be very stable tenants but that is a negative if your city has rent control. It is better to have turn over to stay at market rates. I have the opportunity to build soon and it will all be 1 bedrooms. If rent control wasn't a thing I would gladly build for families. That is the city I want to live in. Edit: You can downvote the truth all you want but it is still the truth.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
sph 4y ago
While I understand their argument, on a social point of view this is utterly immoral. It would be like saying "I do not want to rent to African Americans because they tend to be engage in more petty crime than White American people." And we all know there are very sad yet true stats to prove this. -- Off topic disclaimer: Please do not read my comment as racist, as it is markedly egalitarian in nature: discriminating against families is still discrimination and is immoral and should be illegal. What I am saying is that the social mesh in the United States is so fcuked up that many minorities tend to have a lower quality of life and thus have to resort to unsavoury ways to pay rent. The problem is structural and political, not them. See The Wire for more details. Let's discuss the rent problem, not my example to prove the immorality of it please.
beowulfey 4y ago
While that makes total sense, I think the market has been changing a lot. I suspect many more families are renting now where they might not have previously. Owning a place has become more difficult in many areas of the country. Not sure of the numbers though. Just a feeling, could be totally wrong. Would love to know if there is data for this.
andrepd 4y ago
> person owns apartments for rent That's problem right there.

by rcme 4y ago

aclatuts 4y ago

People rent detached homes to families all the time. My sister does it and I live next to a family who rents a detached home. Why would the viewpoint of owners be any different with renting apartments to families??

luckylion 4y ago
Detached homes are more isolated noise-wise, that's often not the case in apartments. If you rent out apartments, you want low-trouble tenants, not someone you might get a lot complaints about. That's also why many try to exclude people with dogs, they don't want to deal with dogs howling all day and neighbors complaining.

leguminous 4y ago

I just want to point out that, in the US, it is illegal to not rent to families. More specifically, it is illegal to discriminate based on familial status. Whether anyone is actually enforcing that in a particular area may be a different matter.

mbesto 4y ago
That's not what the parent comment was saying. They were saying that there is a reasonable explanation to not develop properties that cater to families - e.g. 4 bedrooms. The alternative is that the 4-bedroom that you conceivably might construct would rent out to 4 individuals who would split the bill...which also introduces a whole bunch of other challenges. Overall point still seems valid - which is there is little financial advantage to renting out a 4-bedroom property and thus a limited supply.
- medler 4y ago
  They said “they have a rule that they’ll never buy large apartments *and they’ll never rent to families*.” The second part is the illegal discrimination.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - chongli 4y ago
    People get around this by never putting themselves in the position of having to refuse. If, as a landlord, you only ever buy single bedroom apartments and studios, you aren’t going to run into families that need 4 bedrooms. It’s not illegal for the landlord to discriminate as to what sort of properties they buy.
    - medler 4y ago
      I mean, gp recounted a story about someone who has a policy against renting to families, so so it sounds like they do refuse sometimes. Also, where I live, lots of families live in one or two bedroom apartments.
Johnny555 4y ago
Whether anyone is actually enforcing that in a particular area may be a different matter. And whether or not it actually is enforceable is yet another. Who would know if a small landlord passed over an applicant because they had a family? Maybe big landlords could be monitored, but I’ve Had a single rental house for 5 years and I’ve been through 2 tenants in that time, no one could detect any trends in that small sample.
- lynx23 4y ago
  It is weird to force a landlord to take customers they know they don't want. Especially when it comes to renting, where the behaviour of your customers does make a big difference. Looking at my current house, we have 10 appartments, and one family. Guess who is contributing to the noise the most? If I were a landlord, I'd also not take any families.
  - ryan_j_naughton 4y ago
    > It is weird to force a landlord to take customers they know they don't want. What you call "weird" others call discrimination. Many racist folks didn't want to rent to black people or other minorities bc they "didn't want them". Others didn't want to rent to see senior citizens or people with disabilities. Protected classes exist for a reason! It is socially optimal to not allow businesses to discriminate against many groups of people.
    - htag 4y ago
      There's also an incredibly high bar to prove housing discrimination. It's not like all housing applications are reviewed by an enforcement agency and statistical anomalies in approval rates are investigated. Protected classes are really only protected from the most blatant forms of discrimination.
    - luckylion 4y ago
      Is the opposite disallowed in the US? In Germany, we have plenty of housing coops and state run builders that e.g. discriminate against single (young?) men. I've tried half a dozen of these not-for-profit entities before I found one that said "we don't care who you are. If you want to live here and you can pay the rent, we're fine with it". The "no discrimination allowed" is often just "no discrimination allowed that we don't approve of".
raducu 4y ago
> it is illegal to discriminate based on familial status. I think the point was why you can't find 4 bedroom apartments for rent. People don't want to rent to families, they don't buy 4 bedroom apartments and they don't rent them. It's not that they actively discriminate against families, they just don't buy properties that would cater to families.
- BizarroLand 4y ago
  I am not a landlord and probably won't ever be one, but looking at it from a financial standpoint, it seems smarter to have 2 2br 1ba apartments for rent than 1 4br 2ba apartment. They would take up roughly the same space, albeit maybe with smaller rooms, but 2 $1500 incomes would provide a more stable income than 1 $3,000 apartment if for no other reason than it is unlikely both tenants would leave at the same time. Worst case you drop to $1,500 for a month or so instead of losing all $3,000 income while you wait for a new tenant to appear.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    > They would take up roughly the same space Each apartment has 1 bedroom, 1 living room, 1 entryway.
  - rswskg 4y ago
    Because you are maintaining two boilers, heating systems, plumbing, etc.
abduhl 4y ago
While you’re generally correct it’s important to note that the Fair Housing Act’s discrimination provisions don’t apply to all housing so it is actually sometimes legal to discriminate based on familial status. It’s probably not relevant here because we’re talking apartments it seems (although a 4BR is a huge apartment).
runamok 4y ago
Huh, TIL. https://rentprep.com/blog/legal/landlords-refuse-rent-families-children/ https://rentprep.com/blog/legal/landlords-refuse-rent-famili...

carom 4y ago

Additionally, families can be very stable tenants but that is a negative if your city has rent control. It is better to have turn over to stay at market rates. I have the opportunity to build soon and it will all be 1 bedrooms. If rent control wasn't a thing I would gladly build for families. That is the city I want to live in. Edit: You can downvote the truth all you want but it is still the truth.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

sph 4y ago

While I understand their argument, on a social point of view this is utterly immoral. It would be like saying "I do not want to rent to African Americans because they tend to be engage in more petty crime than White American people." And we all know there are very sad yet true stats to prove this. -- Off topic disclaimer: Please do not read my comment as racist, as it is markedly egalitarian in nature: discriminating against families is still discrimination and is immoral and should be illegal. What I am saying is that the social mesh in the United States is so fcuked up that many minorities tend to have a lower quality of life and thus have to resort to unsavoury ways to pay rent. The problem is structural and political, not them. See The Wire for more details. Let's discuss the rent problem, not my example to prove the immorality of it please.

beowulfey 4y ago

While that makes total sense, I think the market has been changing a lot. I suspect many more families are renting now where they might not have previously. Owning a place has become more difficult in many areas of the country. Not sure of the numbers though. Just a feeling, could be totally wrong. Would love to know if there is data for this.

andrepd 4y ago

> person owns apartments for rent That's problem right there.