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Ok, let’s just say for a moment that the principle alone is worth putting millions of people in cumulative trillions of debt. The principle alone, that these ki

Ok, let’s just say for a moment that the principle alone is worth putting millions of people in cumulative trillions of debt. The principle alone, that these kids - that’s what they were when they took out the loans btw, uneducated kids at the time those loans were received - deserve to be reprimanded because they listened to their parents and counselors and believed that by taking out these student loans they would have good-paying careers ahead of them, and they failed to account for the probability of those degrees being worthless in a rapidly changing economy. I don’t, but let’s say I did. Why couldn’t the loans be significantly reduced then? Don’t most Americans struggle to come up with even a few hundred dollars in an emergency? Why not make their debt repayment a tenth of what it was to “teach the right life lesson”, or demolish entirely any interest they must pay and apply previous interest payments to the principle? Why not restructure plans based on income that would allow those loans to be forgiven assuming an (admittedly shorter) repayment period, whereby if the students made consistent repayments for 3-5 consecutive years the loans could be forgiven. Wouldn’t any of those plans work to “teach them the right life lesson” and also reduce the ridiculous drag on our economy that are these loans? There are plenty of ways to teach people to be responsible and make these burdens go away for the betterment of society as a whole.

atonse 4y ago
I 100% agree with the alternatives that you've mentioned. For example, X years of meaningful public service (like we do with the military). But those are all concepts around an idea of "ok you can't pay with cash, maybe pay some other way, with your time, with your talent/commitment". I am actually completely ok with those alternatives, you are entering into a transaction with taxpayers that you will serve them for a few years and in exchange, they will pay off your student loans. But this kind of loan forgiveness is simply "let's just not obligate you to pay any of it, and in exchange you have to do... nothing" – when did this become an option, let alone official policy? "the principle alone is worth putting millions of people in cumulative trillions of debt" – the principle didn't do it, the people that made a conscious choice to pick certain schools and degrees did it. Let's not rob them of agency and responsibility, nor should we be patronizing towards many of the borrowers. They knew they would have to pay it off with interest after graduating. Growing up, it was very clear that my parents were never going to be able to pay for our college. It was just understood given our income levels. So the expectation was that we would make decisions that match our situation. So we went to a community college (cheap and free in some situations) with the understanding that we would switch to a state school and it wouldn't have mattered, since the degree would just reflect the better known state school's name. So it was a win-win. And our family was generally clueless about the American system, yet we absolutely knew we would have to get college degrees. I stayed at home to save money instead of staying on campus, and came out with 28k in debt (but that was because I did 6 years of college since I worked all 6 years). It could've ben less. 28k in college loans at 3%. Those were all conscious choices we made. It took me 15 years to pay off my student loans but that's because I had the minimum interest, minimum payment. I probably wasted a lot in interest but the $200/mo barely ever made a dent in my paycheck. I _know_ this is likely a straw man but have to mention it. I have spoken to a neighbor who literally studied student loan repayment as a policy issue in 2019, and he said nearly half the people asking to have their debts forgiven are grad students. Forgiving grad student loans is simply absurd. Now we are truly subsidizing a privileged few. I do concur that everyone is told in high school that you need a college degree to survive, and that it is messed up that we mislead children that way. But as far as I have seen, the advice would've been to go to college, and less about going to expensive colleges. Or to get degrees in fields that will never give them the earning power to pay off their student loans. You can go to a state school (in-state tuition), be a commuter, attend community college to further save. All those options are there to cut costs. Many students simply didn't want to do that, and are now asking everyone else to pay off their bad financial decision. What's to stop them from doing the same for other financial decisions like car loans, mortgages, etc? You could make the same arguments about being told about the virtues of home ownership.

atonse 4y ago

I 100% agree with the alternatives that you've mentioned. For example, X years of meaningful public service (like we do with the military). But those are all concepts around an idea of "ok you can't pay with cash, maybe pay some other way, with your time, with your talent/commitment". I am actually completely ok with those alternatives, you are entering into a transaction with taxpayers that you will serve them for a few years and in exchange, they will pay off your student loans. But this kind of loan forgiveness is simply "let's just not obligate you to pay any of it, and in exchange you have to do... nothing" – when did this become an option, let alone official policy? "the principle alone is worth putting millions of people in cumulative trillions of debt" – the principle didn't do it, the people that made a conscious choice to pick certain schools and degrees did it. Let's not rob them of agency and responsibility, nor should we be patronizing towards many of the borrowers. They knew they would have to pay it off with interest after graduating. Growing up, it was very clear that my parents were never going to be able to pay for our college. It was just understood given our income levels. So the expectation was that we would make decisions that match our situation. So we went to a community college (cheap and free in some situations) with the understanding that we would switch to a state school and it wouldn't have mattered, since the degree would just reflect the better known state school's name. So it was a win-win. And our family was generally clueless about the American system, yet we absolutely knew we would have to get college degrees. I stayed at home to save money instead of staying on campus, and came out with 28k in debt (but that was because I did 6 years of college since I worked all 6 years). It could've ben less. 28k in college loans at 3%. Those were all conscious choices we made. It took me 15 years to pay off my student loans but that's because I had the minimum interest, minimum payment. I probably wasted a lot in interest but the $200/mo barely ever made a dent in my paycheck. I _know_ this is likely a straw man but have to mention it. I have spoken to a neighbor who literally studied student loan repayment as a policy issue in 2019, and he said nearly half the people asking to have their debts forgiven are grad students. Forgiving grad student loans is simply absurd. Now we are truly subsidizing a privileged few. I do concur that everyone is told in high school that you need a college degree to survive, and that it is messed up that we mislead children that way. But as far as I have seen, the advice would've been to go to college, and less about going to expensive colleges. Or to get degrees in fields that will never give them the earning power to pay off their student loans. You can go to a state school (in-state tuition), be a commuter, attend community college to further save. All those options are there to cut costs. Many students simply didn't want to do that, and are now asking everyone else to pay off their bad financial decision. What's to stop them from doing the same for other financial decisions like car loans, mortgages, etc? You could make the same arguments about being told about the virtues of home ownership.