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This is interesting. A group of internationally known virologists have a video podcast. They have nearly 1000 casts and have interviewed virologists worldwide.

by daly 4y ago

This is interesting. A group of internationally known virologists have a video podcast. They have nearly 1000 casts and have interviewed virologists worldwide. See This Week in Virology (https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/ https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/) They have said that they do not believe it would be possible, given the current state of research, to engineer Sars-Cov2 I'm more likely to take the opinion of world experts in Virology than the Director of the FBI. Your opinion may differ.

wrp 4y ago
"Leaked from a lab" and "created in a lab" are different issues.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago
  With which one worse, objectively? And for whom?
  - nwah1 4y ago
    They are both a bad look for virology. And thus virologists would have a bias towards defending their profession.
- rogerkirkness 4y ago
  The story about how various miners working in a cave with bats in it in China got pneumonia in 2016 and that virus was worked on at WIV seems most likely.
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    RaTG13 is a thousand mutations and several decades of evolution away from SARS-CoV-2, you don't get from having RaTG13 in a lab to SARS-CoV-2. There's no evidence that WIV recovered whole virus of RaTG13 or cultured it. SARS-CoV-2 is not a chimera of a RaTG13 backbone and an ACE2-attaching spike, there's a lot more mutations involved. You also don't get there from serial passage experiments in a lab, you need serial passage through decades and many millions of infections in nature, we can't operate at that scale.
brucethemoose2 4y ago
The intelligence community certainly knows things virologists don't, and vice versa. Also, it does not necessarily have to be "engineered" to have been released. Both statements could be somewhat true. Not that I buy either explanation yet. I have kind of accepted we will never definitively know COVID-19's source, and (though I understand the need to protect clandestine information) these announcements without evidence are not changing that sentiment.
- BMc2020 4y ago
  The intelligence community certainly knows things virologists don't about virology?
  - brucethemoose2 4y ago
    About things other than virology, like evidence or sources in Wuhan that point to a leak, or classified information taken from the Chinese govt.
    - BMc2020 4y ago
      Sure, could be, perhaps, maybe, possibly, who knows? You do understand you are just making shit up?
    - deserialized 4y ago
      So just your feelings then
BMc2020 4y ago
Very good show, Dr. Daniel Griffin is my source for any covid information. Yes, we don't know how to do this, nor does anyone. There's only a few hundred virologists in this tier and they all know each other and what their labs can do. If anyone ever does claim it's man made I ask them why, if it is man made, does it have synonymous mutations? The few times it happened (early in the pandemic), not one of them knew what a synonymous mutation was.
fhrow4484 4y ago
I don't see the FBI director mention that Sars-Cov2 was engineered anywhere. He said "probably the result of a laboratory leak". If someone runs a lab, and they have Ebola or other virus in their fridges, and it leaks due to poor handling practice, that doesn't mean Ebola was engineered... So it's possible to agree with both the opinions of the virologists-podcasters AND of the director of the FBI, isn't it?
- brucethemoose2 4y ago
  Other experts in the field have mentioned that, with existing containment protocols, its extremely difficult for a pathogen to accidentally leak out. That doesnt meant it was necessarily deliberately released. But maybe there was some extrordinary negligence involved that could make the Chinese government look bad.
  - junofan 4y ago
    There’s a video where a Wuhan Institute of Virology staff member shows off bat bite(s). I’m inclined to believe my eyes over the experts on that one. Doesn’t look like containment was always taken seriously.
  - frankreyes 4y ago
    The story of the bsl4 lab in Wuhan is of delays and compliance problems. It was so broken that the French were kicked out... https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15729081/france-warned-wuhan-lab-biological-arsenal-chinese-military/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15729081/france-warned-wuhan-l...
fsckboy 4y ago
personally, I don't believe them. let me ask you, would it be fair to say that the virologists who are most knowledgeable about engineering virii come by this knowledge by conducting such experiments themselves? wasn't there discussion in Fauci's emails of suspicions that this virus was engineered? and discussions of the value of such gain of function research? isn't there room for disagreement among experts as to the efficacy of such experimental paths weighed against our ability to keep them safely in the lab? do researchers often find their work and careers stymied by process of getting funding? would funding for these avid gene splicers possibly be put in jeopardy were politicians and the public to become scared of the experiments they do? didn't the discussion in Fauci's emails reflect that the govt had restricted such experiments? Wouldn't that give them a bias in favor of downplaying such a possibility? Would a person be wrong for suspecting a massive bias?
chaimanmeow 4y ago
It is a chimeric variant of SARS.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  Except it isn't.
frankreyes 4y ago
Nowhere in the article says it was engineered. Laboratories study what's already available in animals... >>> "The FBI has for quite some time now assessed that the origins of the pandemic are most likely a potential lab incident," That's the actual quote from the FBI. News article from 2021: >>>FRANCE warned that the Wuhan lab linked to the Covid outbreak could be turned into a "biological arsenal" by the Chinese military four years before the pandemic, it is reported. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15729081/france-warned-wuhan-lab-biological-arsenal-chinese-military/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15729081/france-warned-wuhan-l...

by daly 4y ago

wrp 4y ago

"Leaked from a lab" and "created in a lab" are different issues.

bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago
With which one worse, objectively? And for whom?
- nwah1 4y ago
  They are both a bad look for virology. And thus virologists would have a bias towards defending their profession.
rogerkirkness 4y ago
The story about how various miners working in a cave with bats in it in China got pneumonia in 2016 and that virus was worked on at WIV seems most likely.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  RaTG13 is a thousand mutations and several decades of evolution away from SARS-CoV-2, you don't get from having RaTG13 in a lab to SARS-CoV-2. There's no evidence that WIV recovered whole virus of RaTG13 or cultured it. SARS-CoV-2 is not a chimera of a RaTG13 backbone and an ACE2-attaching spike, there's a lot more mutations involved. You also don't get there from serial passage experiments in a lab, you need serial passage through decades and many millions of infections in nature, we can't operate at that scale.

brucethemoose2 4y ago

The intelligence community certainly knows things virologists don't, and vice versa. Also, it does not necessarily have to be "engineered" to have been released. Both statements could be somewhat true. Not that I buy either explanation yet. I have kind of accepted we will never definitively know COVID-19's source, and (though I understand the need to protect clandestine information) these announcements without evidence are not changing that sentiment.

BMc2020 4y ago
The intelligence community certainly knows things virologists don't about virology?
- brucethemoose2 4y ago
  About things other than virology, like evidence or sources in Wuhan that point to a leak, or classified information taken from the Chinese govt.
  - BMc2020 4y ago
    Sure, could be, perhaps, maybe, possibly, who knows? You do understand you are just making shit up?
  - deserialized 4y ago
    So just your feelings then

BMc2020 4y ago

Very good show, Dr. Daniel Griffin is my source for any covid information. Yes, we don't know how to do this, nor does anyone. There's only a few hundred virologists in this tier and they all know each other and what their labs can do. If anyone ever does claim it's man made I ask them why, if it is man made, does it have synonymous mutations? The few times it happened (early in the pandemic), not one of them knew what a synonymous mutation was.

fhrow4484 4y ago

I don't see the FBI director mention that Sars-Cov2 was engineered anywhere. He said "probably the result of a laboratory leak". If someone runs a lab, and they have Ebola or other virus in their fridges, and it leaks due to poor handling practice, that doesn't mean Ebola was engineered... So it's possible to agree with both the opinions of the virologists-podcasters AND of the director of the FBI, isn't it?

brucethemoose2 4y ago
Other experts in the field have mentioned that, with existing containment protocols, its extremely difficult for a pathogen to accidentally leak out. That doesnt meant it was necessarily deliberately released. But maybe there was some extrordinary negligence involved that could make the Chinese government look bad.
- junofan 4y ago
  There’s a video where a Wuhan Institute of Virology staff member shows off bat bite(s). I’m inclined to believe my eyes over the experts on that one. Doesn’t look like containment was always taken seriously.
- frankreyes 4y ago
  The story of the bsl4 lab in Wuhan is of delays and compliance problems. It was so broken that the French were kicked out... https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15729081/france-warned-wuhan-lab-biological-arsenal-chinese-military/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15729081/france-warned-wuhan-l...

fsckboy 4y ago

personally, I don't believe them. let me ask you, would it be fair to say that the virologists who are most knowledgeable about engineering virii come by this knowledge by conducting such experiments themselves? wasn't there discussion in Fauci's emails of suspicions that this virus was engineered? and discussions of the value of such gain of function research? isn't there room for disagreement among experts as to the efficacy of such experimental paths weighed against our ability to keep them safely in the lab? do researchers often find their work and careers stymied by process of getting funding? would funding for these avid gene splicers possibly be put in jeopardy were politicians and the public to become scared of the experiments they do? didn't the discussion in Fauci's emails reflect that the govt had restricted such experiments? Wouldn't that give them a bias in favor of downplaying such a possibility? Would a person be wrong for suspecting a massive bias?

chaimanmeow 4y ago

It is a chimeric variant of SARS.

lamontcg 4y ago
Except it isn't.

frankreyes 4y ago

Nowhere in the article says it was engineered. Laboratories study what's already available in animals... >>> "The FBI has for quite some time now assessed that the origins of the pandemic are most likely a potential lab incident," That's the actual quote from the FBI. News article from 2021: >>>FRANCE warned that the Wuhan lab linked to the Covid outbreak could be turned into a "biological arsenal" by the Chinese military four years before the pandemic, it is reported. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15729081/france-warned-wuhan-lab-biological-arsenal-chinese-military/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15729081/france-warned-wuhan-l...