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> "Half a trillion dollars". Uhm, so how much were those tax breaks to the wealthy Trump enacted? And, uhm, how much did each of the Iraqi and Afghani wars cos

> "Half a trillion dollars". Uhm, so how much were those tax breaks to the wealthy Trump enacted? And, uhm, how much did each of the Iraqi and Afghani wars cost individually? Oh, and how much was the development of that shiny new fighter jet? So all of those were more necessary than educating our population in a globalized and highly-competitive economy? Not that I should expect anything more of this supreme court administration. Edit: forgot poorly planned corporate Covid stimulus

andrei_says_ 4y ago
Strong nation = smart, educated, healthy population with sufficiently reliable safety net supporting entrepreneurship and healthy lifestyles.
lockhouse 4y ago
Congress voted to authorize all of that. They didn't vote to authorize this. The Supreme Court is supposed to interpret the Constitution and federal laws as they are written, not as people wish they were written. It's not their job to legislate from the bench. If you want student loan forgiveness, get Congress to do it.
- krapp 4y ago
  >The Supreme Court is supposed to interpret the Constitution as it is written, not as people wish it was written. It's not their job to legislate from the bench. Legislating from the bench is all the Supreme Court does. Their decisions are literally personal interpretations of the Constitution as they wish it was written, because there is no objective interpretation of that document. That's why their decisions include dissenting opinions, and why they undo previous decisions.
- dataflow 4y ago
  > Congress voted to authorize all of that. They didn't vote to authorize this. Didn't they vote on the HEROES Act? How do you read the relevant sections of the HEROES Act in a way that excludes this?
yucky 4y ago
And don't forget to add Ukraine onto that pile of useless wastes of billions, even more so since it's currently happening.
- Ancalagon 4y ago
  Ironically I feel the spending in Ukraine is more justified than the other causes I mentioned if only to catch Putin with his pants down, make Russia show it’s hand, and keep Russian and Chinese expansionary dreams in check. In many ways I agree with you though. Education for the US population is probably a far better use of that amount of cash
  - yucky 4y ago
    This is how most people felt about Iraq and Afghanistan during the first Bush term. It isn't going to end the way they tell you. It never does.
atonse 4y ago
Ignoring the “what about <x wrong thing>” as an argument, I actually agree with you on the overarching principle that we should prioritize educating our populace. However, we aren’t arguing about making college free or incentivizing colleges to reduce their fees. I can see all your arguments in service of that point. We are talking about loan forgiveness: Releasing one group of people from fulfilling their part of a financial deal they consciously made to benefit themselves, by using the money of other people. The deal they made was, they borrow funds to pay for a purchase they made, but when it comes time to pay the funds back, they are backing out and want someone else to handle it. And that idea of making others clean up your mess fundamentally bothers me to the core, just as much as when it happens to corporations. I can even get behind student loan INTEREST forgiveness, let’s ease that. But paying off the principal seems to go too far and teaches the wrong life lesson about not having to keep your end of a deal, to millions of young adults. I’m not making a political argument. Just one based on the principle of being a responsible adult.
- lapcat 4y ago
  > and want someone else to handle it To be clear, nobody else has to handle it. The debt is owed to the federal government, and if forgiven is simply erased. It would mean that less money will be paid in the future to the federal government from student loan debtors. But the federal budget changes every year due to many different factors. There's no inherent requirement that the federal government has to spend $X rather than $X + Y or $X - Y. And of course general tax income various from year to year due to economic conditions, changing tax rates, etc. Moreover, a lot of student loan debt never gets paid back anyway, due to default, forbearance, or death of the debtor.
  - mech765 4y ago
    In today's inflationary environment, forgiving the loans will have an effect of increasing the money supply (roughly-quantity of dollars in circulation). Even if nobody ever pays increased taxes because of the loan forgiveness, everybody has to take on the burden of somewhat higher inflation to make up for it.

andrei_says_ 4y ago

Strong nation = smart, educated, healthy population with sufficiently reliable safety net supporting entrepreneurship and healthy lifestyles.

lockhouse 4y ago

Congress voted to authorize all of that. They didn't vote to authorize this. The Supreme Court is supposed to interpret the Constitution and federal laws as they are written, not as people wish they were written. It's not their job to legislate from the bench. If you want student loan forgiveness, get Congress to do it.

krapp 4y ago
>The Supreme Court is supposed to interpret the Constitution as it is written, not as people wish it was written. It's not their job to legislate from the bench. Legislating from the bench is all the Supreme Court does. Their decisions are literally personal interpretations of the Constitution as they wish it was written, because there is no objective interpretation of that document. That's why their decisions include dissenting opinions, and why they undo previous decisions.
dataflow 4y ago
> Congress voted to authorize all of that. They didn't vote to authorize this. Didn't they vote on the HEROES Act? How do you read the relevant sections of the HEROES Act in a way that excludes this?

yucky 4y ago

And don't forget to add Ukraine onto that pile of useless wastes of billions, even more so since it's currently happening.

Ancalagon 4y ago
Ironically I feel the spending in Ukraine is more justified than the other causes I mentioned if only to catch Putin with his pants down, make Russia show it’s hand, and keep Russian and Chinese expansionary dreams in check. In many ways I agree with you though. Education for the US population is probably a far better use of that amount of cash
- yucky 4y ago
  This is how most people felt about Iraq and Afghanistan during the first Bush term. It isn't going to end the way they tell you. It never does.

atonse 4y ago

Ignoring the “what about <x wrong thing>” as an argument, I actually agree with you on the overarching principle that we should prioritize educating our populace. However, we aren’t arguing about making college free or incentivizing colleges to reduce their fees. I can see all your arguments in service of that point. We are talking about loan forgiveness: Releasing one group of people from fulfilling their part of a financial deal they consciously made to benefit themselves, by using the money of other people. The deal they made was, they borrow funds to pay for a purchase they made, but when it comes time to pay the funds back, they are backing out and want someone else to handle it. And that idea of making others clean up your mess fundamentally bothers me to the core, just as much as when it happens to corporations. I can even get behind student loan INTEREST forgiveness, let’s ease that. But paying off the principal seems to go too far and teaches the wrong life lesson about not having to keep your end of a deal, to millions of young adults. I’m not making a political argument. Just one based on the principle of being a responsible adult.

lapcat 4y ago
> and want someone else to handle it To be clear, nobody else has to handle it. The debt is owed to the federal government, and if forgiven is simply erased. It would mean that less money will be paid in the future to the federal government from student loan debtors. But the federal budget changes every year due to many different factors. There's no inherent requirement that the federal government has to spend $X rather than $X + Y or $X - Y. And of course general tax income various from year to year due to economic conditions, changing tax rates, etc. Moreover, a lot of student loan debt never gets paid back anyway, due to default, forbearance, or death of the debtor.
- mech765 4y ago
  In today's inflationary environment, forgiving the loans will have an effect of increasing the money supply (roughly-quantity of dollars in circulation). Even if nobody ever pays increased taxes because of the loan forgiveness, everybody has to take on the burden of somewhat higher inflation to make up for it.