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Brace yourself then, because the future of automotive is highly connected, and in many ways it already is. Every car since the early 2000s has computerized comp
by magic_hamster 4y ago
Brace yourself then, because the future of automotive is highly connected, and in many ways it already is. Every car since the early 2000s has computerized components that control everything from power steering to infotainment systems, and your car probably already communicates with some servers using a built in cellular sim.
Hackers have been able to compromise cars for at least a couple of decades, and while car manufacturers are getting better at securing their products, they are all pushing hard for further connectivity. This means apps and subscriptions for your car, new protocols that lets cars exchange information, and a huge reliance on cloud.
Source: first hand sources working in well known automotive corporations.
- giobox 4y agoEvery new Ford on sale today in the US, from the cheapest Maverick to the most expensive F150 configuration, now has remote monitoring and access via 5G as standard - it's needed if nothing else to offer the apps to remote start and unlock the car that consumers just expect now. Its generally the same industry wide. > https://www.ford.com/support/category/fordpass/ https://www.ford.com/support/category/fordpass/
- heavyset_go 4y agoIs it always connected or do drivers need to pay a fee for connectivity?
- zrobotics 4y agoAlways connected, no fee. Although the car (at least my 21) also offers a cellular wifi hotspot that appears to use the ATT network[0]. No clue what the monthly pricing is, I've never signed up for that trial. I have the lowest spec, cheapest car Ford had available and it still has the cellular antenna. I checked, and at leadt on an ecosport the cell antenna is very easy to remove and doesn't impact functionality of the car. That being said, I did reconnect the cellular antenna since app-enabled remote start is a genuinely useful feature. I can warm the car up from my desk without having to walk within range of the keyfob, so I am accepting that bit of privacy loss. [0] https://www.ford.com/support/category/fordpass/fordpass-connect-wifi-hotspot/ https://www.ford.com/support/category/fordpass/fordpass-conn...
- heavyset_go 4y agoThanks for the info. I wonder if anyone's repurposed these radios/SIM/whatever for free 5G/LTE traffic.
- tru3_power 4y agoHow would that work?
- Nextgrid 4y agoTake out the SIM from the car's network interface module and put it in a phone/modem. If they're restricting by IMEI you may need to spoof that.
- giobox 4y agoDo we think ford even bother with SIM cards? Lots of modern 5G devices have e-sims etc, much easier for the factory floor if SIM card can be loaded via software too. None of my families cellphones have physical sims anymore either.
- Nextgrid 4y agoIn this case, take the modem chip itself. Most off-the-shelf USB/Mini-PCIe/etc modem cards use the same underlying chips, so you can just move the chip over which would contain both the eSIM as well as the original IMEI.
- giobox 4y ago> you can just move the chip over I can't help but chuckle at the use of the word "just" here. Sure, if we are now into reverse engineering hardware module interfaces and potentially desolder jobs on a (at a minimum) ~$20k vehicle, of which many features will stop working once you remove the module as well as triggering how many warning and service lights...
- davchana 4y agoCar connects free for itself, and loads navigation, traffic, location on app etc. If you want a wifi hotspot, thats $300 a year from ATT network 2ith 22GB fast speed per month. Source: my car.
- heavyset_go 4y agoCool, thanks. What happens if it doesn't have a connection with the cell network? Do those features still work?
- davchana 4y agoNo, GPS Shows a red circle & Line if car is far in basements or in downtown. No Traffic Data if no mobile coverage (although no symbols to show how much mobile coverage it has). App shows only last known location (& gas level, odometer, tyre pressure etc) from last point in time connected. Remote start & doors lock/unlock will not work if car is not connected.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- skipkey 4y agoMy 2013 F150 periodically asks me if it should upload a “Vehicle health report”. I have always declined. The idea of a vehicle repossessing itself does bother me. In the early 2000s I bought a vehicle from Mitsubishi, financed through them. At the time, setting up an automatic payment through them cost a monthly fee, so I set it up through my bank instead. About 3 years later I got a call from them threatening repossession because I was three months behind on payments. I checked and every payment had been sent. It turned out that Mitsubishi Motors East had transferred my loan to Mitsubishi Motors West, or something like that, and I had missed that. It was probably in one of the statements I never bothered opening.
- smegger001 4y agoYeah what happens when someone gets out to pump gas with their child and phone in the car and fords automated repo algorithm decides is the optimal time to drive away.
- tangjurine 4y agoFord stock goes down 5%, media hushes it up
- skibidibipiti 4y ago[dead]
- giobox 4y agoEveryone assumes the tech will be self driving, but it doesn’t need to be. The repo man can just use the 5G connection to locate the car, drive to it, unlock the car start the ignition and drive it away. This would work today just using the APIs all modern Fords already have. There are rumours this already happens for some car models: > https://tiremeetsroad.com/2021/03/18/tesla-allegedly-remotely-unlocks-model-3-owners-car-uses-smart-summon-to-help-repo-agent/ https://tiremeetsroad.com/2021/03/18/tesla-allegedly-remotel...
- JohnFen 4y agoThis is why I only buy old cars. If that becomes impossible in the future, that would be enough to get me to finally give up owning a car entirely.
- wizardcreator 4y agoMe too. Just need to make sure I live where I can walk and bike as I get old.
- patrick451 4y agoSame, at least in part. I wish there was a database or wiki of some sort that collected when every model stopped being un-connected and adopted the rest of these user hostile features.
- ashwagary 4y agoTrue, all the smarter people end up becoming Will Smith in iRobot.
- oynqr 4y agoHell, some old cars are well supported by completely open-source ECUs. Sadly, the number one best supported car is always the damn Miata.
- HybridCurve 4y agoLikely because they are inexpensive and are beloved track cars. I was hoping the GT88/BRZ would oust the miata from this position- I much prefer a hard top over a convertible, but I think the existing after market and price point make it hard to compete.
- oynqr 4y agoI think there are bolt-on hardtops for NA and NB Miatas. Looks kinda funky. Also yeah, the Toyota 86 family is still too expensive to be a project car for most.
- 4y ago
- mistrial9 4y agobut, you work in certain markets. You likely don't know yourself, that most of the population of the world does not have these things.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago> Brace yourself then, because the future of automotive is highly connected Thats not the problem - the problem is you are / will not be the owner, you can never become the owner because the firmware is not for sale. You are just a peasant that pays for the hardware and tne repair bill and is allowed to drive it unless you break one of the clauses in 900 page EULA
- nitwit005 4y agoSadly, it seems the Titanic must sink to get maritime safety laws. Eventually some hacker will decide crashing cars is fun, and I don't expect real security to happen before that. The same goes for medical equipment.
- __MatrixMan__ 4y ago> some hacker will decide crashing cars is fun $5 says the hacker will be a nation state, and the "fun" will be an assassination that's hard to prove wasn't a glitch.
- Qem 4y agoPerhaps it already happened: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hastings_(journalist) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hastings_(journalist...
- Rantenki 4y agoI recently was working on highly connected autonomous public transportation. Can confirm that connectivity is only increasing, and that cloud connectivity is going to be a hard requirement in the future. As for security, while the automotive manufacturers are aware of dangers, and standards like ISO21434 https://www.iso.org/standard/70918.html https://www.iso.org/standard/70918.html are driving them towards better security engineering practices, there is a huge gulf between process/compliance/governance, and truly secure engineering practices as a core part of engineering culture. Many/most of the people working on the on-board systems come from an embedded development background that doesn't include pervasive connectivity. That's a problem. They might check the boxes to appear secure, but they aren't necessarily invested in the process. My prediction; there _is_ going to be a severe and widespread automotive security event which cannot be ignored, before that culture shifts.
- skibidibipiti 4y ago[dead]
- rkagerer 4y agoMy prediction; there _is_ going to be a severe and widespread automotive security event which cannot be ignored, before that culture shifts. Yeah that's a big Definitely. I wish developers and consumers alike exercised a higher standard for software quality and weren't becoming increasingly tolerant of crap.