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..and this is why the American war machine is so effective. Their logistics are absolutely amazing. You know who else is really really good at Logistics? China

..and this is why the American war machine is so effective. Their logistics are absolutely amazing. You know who else is really really good at Logistics? China.

klooney 4y ago
Also, they have a large and still functional industrial base.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  US industrial production is at or near all-time highs, no?
  - gumby 4y ago
    In dollar volume yes. In mass of materiel, or flexibility, less so.
    - klooney 4y ago
      There was a great econtalk episode that I can never dig up claiming that even that was mostly about hedonic adjustments for the quality of Intel chips.
  - klooney 4y ago
    Tim Cook: “In the US, you could have a meeting of tooling engineers, and I’m not sure we could fill the room. In China, you could fill multiple football fields" And that story repeats all the way up and down the supply chain. In WW II the USA was basically China- they had a thick supply chain from raw materials up, and could spin up factories because they had experienced people who could bring along new employees. We still think of ourselves as being that country but we're not, and a new serious war would play out with a very different script.
ericmay 4y ago
> You know who else is really really good at Logistics? China. What do you base this on? And how does it translate to potential military engagements?
- cameldrv 4y ago
  They have an enormous civilian shipping fleet, some of which has been designed to meet military requirements. For example, China has a good number of RoRo car ferries which also incorporate military requirements, and even participate in military exercises [1] [1] https://news.usni.org/2022/09/28/chinese-launch-assault-craft-from-civilian-car-ferries-in-mass-amphibious-invasion-drill-satellite-photos-show https://news.usni.org/2022/09/28/chinese-launch-assault-craf...
  - ericmay 4y ago
    How does this translate to logistics? Are you saying during a war these boats will be effectively coordinated logistical supply elements?
    - Ao7bei3s 4y ago
      Yes. The US does the same with commercial ships[1] and aircraft[2]. Interestingly, in the case of the US, part of the payment for providing this service is priority access to government contracts during peacetime. Which is doubly great for the government - no extra cost beyond operating cost, and the capability is regularly exercised even in peacetime. [1] https://www.maritime.dot.gov/national-security/strategic-sealift/maritime-security-program-msp https://www.maritime.dot.gov/national-security/strategic-sea... + https://www.maritime.dot.gov/national-security/strategic-sealift/voluntary-intermodal-sealift-agreement-visa https://www.maritime.dot.gov/national-security/strategic-sea... [2] https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104583/civil-reserve-air-fleet/ https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/1045...
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> who else is really really good at Logistics? China. This remains to be seen. Over-the-horizon logistics are a different beast. China shares Russia’s lot in being a land power. Adapting those lines of communication to long-distance force projection across oceans, something that comes naturally to a maritime power like America (at the cost of raw power), is incredibly difficult.
Balgair 4y ago
Shanghai's cold chain failures during the pandemic would seem to disagree, in one small aspect. Also, the Red Army's logistical skills are not de facto inherited from the civilian population's. Significant hand-over and training would be needed. Still, yeah, a lot better than the kleptocracy of Russia. Man, they still don't have forklifts. How the hell did we think they were anything?
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  They thought they were still tough. We can make our own assessments, and we can hack or bribe their officials to get their take -- but if they think they're hot shit, what are we to expect? And it's clear that they did indeed think they were hot shit: their planning, and eventual failures, reflected that. If the Russian Army itself didn't think it had a problem, why would foreign intelligence?

..and this is why the American war machine is so effective. Their logistics are absolutely amazing. You know who else is really really good at Logistics? China.

klooney 4y ago

Also, they have a large and still functional industrial base.

yamtaddle 4y ago
US industrial production is at or near all-time highs, no?
- gumby 4y ago
  In dollar volume yes. In mass of materiel, or flexibility, less so.
  - klooney 4y ago
    There was a great econtalk episode that I can never dig up claiming that even that was mostly about hedonic adjustments for the quality of Intel chips.
- klooney 4y ago
  Tim Cook: “In the US, you could have a meeting of tooling engineers, and I’m not sure we could fill the room. In China, you could fill multiple football fields" And that story repeats all the way up and down the supply chain. In WW II the USA was basically China- they had a thick supply chain from raw materials up, and could spin up factories because they had experienced people who could bring along new employees. We still think of ourselves as being that country but we're not, and a new serious war would play out with a very different script.

ericmay 4y ago

> You know who else is really really good at Logistics? China. What do you base this on? And how does it translate to potential military engagements?

cameldrv 4y ago
They have an enormous civilian shipping fleet, some of which has been designed to meet military requirements. For example, China has a good number of RoRo car ferries which also incorporate military requirements, and even participate in military exercises [1] [1] https://news.usni.org/2022/09/28/chinese-launch-assault-craft-from-civilian-car-ferries-in-mass-amphibious-invasion-drill-satellite-photos-show https://news.usni.org/2022/09/28/chinese-launch-assault-craf...
- ericmay 4y ago
  How does this translate to logistics? Are you saying during a war these boats will be effectively coordinated logistical supply elements?
  - Ao7bei3s 4y ago
    Yes. The US does the same with commercial ships[1] and aircraft[2]. Interestingly, in the case of the US, part of the payment for providing this service is priority access to government contracts during peacetime. Which is doubly great for the government - no extra cost beyond operating cost, and the capability is regularly exercised even in peacetime. [1] https://www.maritime.dot.gov/national-security/strategic-sealift/maritime-security-program-msp https://www.maritime.dot.gov/national-security/strategic-sea... + https://www.maritime.dot.gov/national-security/strategic-sealift/voluntary-intermodal-sealift-agreement-visa https://www.maritime.dot.gov/national-security/strategic-sea... [2] https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104583/civil-reserve-air-fleet/ https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/1045...
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> who else is really really good at Logistics? China. This remains to be seen. Over-the-horizon logistics are a different beast. China shares Russia’s lot in being a land power. Adapting those lines of communication to long-distance force projection across oceans, something that comes naturally to a maritime power like America (at the cost of raw power), is incredibly difficult.

Balgair 4y ago

Shanghai's cold chain failures during the pandemic would seem to disagree, in one small aspect. Also, the Red Army's logistical skills are not de facto inherited from the civilian population's. Significant hand-over and training would be needed. Still, yeah, a lot better than the kleptocracy of Russia. Man, they still don't have forklifts. How the hell did we think they were anything?

red-iron-pine 4y ago
They thought they were still tough. We can make our own assessments, and we can hack or bribe their officials to get their take -- but if they think they're hot shit, what are we to expect? And it's clear that they did indeed think they were hot shit: their planning, and eventual failures, reflected that. If the Russian Army itself didn't think it had a problem, why would foreign intelligence?