4 ms·

The premise here is very solid- shut down the small number of people that the Oligarchs depend on, and their ability to operate is curtailed much more effective

The premise here is very solid- shut down the small number of people that the Oligarchs depend on, and their ability to operate is curtailed much more effectively than trying to attack the oligarchs directly.

motohagiography 4y ago
The challenge with it is that this doesn't generalize to any shared principle and it's cynical realpolitik dressed up as network science. I'd argue this paper is less a work of scholarship than an example of collusive, astroturfed, agitprop, where even though russia's oligarchs are an easy target because they are still new money and retain the taint of trade from the corruption that produced their fortunes, the authors are casting aspersions on highly regulated businesses that provide the financial rails for investing and preserving pensions and sovereign wealth. The only reason you can insure anything or have long term financial instruments at all is because of special purpose vehicles that persist longer than the whims of a given regional governing party. These vehicles are infrastructure that provides financial stability for capital flows that facilitate social stability and growth. I remember the eurozone sovereign debt crisis', and to me the paper just looks like another (tawdry) setup for blaming "speculators and international financiers" for the failed technocratic policies of their peers own makings. The approach of "going upstream," is guilt by association, and it's unprincipled overreach. The paper is entertaining, and I'm glad that the networkX python library has become so accessible that social activists can use it, but I think we should hold the authors to a higher standard.
- CyanBird 4y ago
  From my naive perspective it almost reads that you won't be able to receive your money on the proper hongkong HSBC select account and are upset about it Reality is that tax dodging is a wildly out of control problem, and worse it is considered to be de defacto standard to even run a business at all. From south Dakota to the city of London and beyond. It is really a problem
  - from 4y ago
    The outlash against oligarchs has almost nothing to do with tax dodging. If anything they pay many thousand times more than they consume in public services (they're not even in London the whole year and the property tax alone on one penthouse is probably more than the average person pays in taxes in a decade). It is more about sanctions right now than anything. This paper promotes the "facilitators" idea that if we could just eliminate a few key offshore providers we could stop the oligarchs right in their tracks. They have some nice theoretical calculations and visualizations that justify this. I think in the real world the outcome would be very different because there is no reason to think that a 1000 more "facilitators" wouldn't pop up wherever the new cool jurisdiction is. Are we really expecting the whole world to leave trillions of dollars on the table?
    - lifeisstillgood 4y ago
      Property tax in London? You mean ... council tax? For a penthouse in the City - 2,194 pa. There is a one time sales tax (stamp duty) but that's not what you mean I think. Oligarchs owning property in London are not forced to contribute to the London coffers .... not at all https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/services/council-tax/council-tax-bands-and-charges https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/services/council-tax/council...
      - from 4y ago
        So... I am supposed to believe that ultra high income people that are known to engage in a high degree of conspicuous consumption while using minimal government services contribute nothing to the budget? They don't pay way more in VAT than the average person? They don't create any construction employment that in turn is taxed? I'm not saying they're good people or anything but if anything it seems like their obvious benefit is that they contribute to the economy.
        lifeisstillgood 4y ago
        The original post was about property tax specifically. Walk down Park Lane at night and look at the dark million dollar apartments - if no-one lives there there is not a lot of "trickle down" happening - the maids, the drivers, the restaurants, the money does not flow unless they are home. But the point of super rich is to avoid states and their taxes and capricious democratic decisions. Yachts are useful for that.
berjin 4y ago
Is it a small number? I would guess most jobs in the City of London wouldn't exist if the loopholes were closed.
- nine_k 4y ago
  But the current adversary (Russian oligarchs supporting the current Russian authoritarian president) is more narrowly defined, so the idea is likely more of a specific hit operation than of a complete elimination of the system of loopholes.

motohagiography 4y ago

The challenge with it is that this doesn't generalize to any shared principle and it's cynical realpolitik dressed up as network science. I'd argue this paper is less a work of scholarship than an example of collusive, astroturfed, agitprop, where even though russia's oligarchs are an easy target because they are still new money and retain the taint of trade from the corruption that produced their fortunes, the authors are casting aspersions on highly regulated businesses that provide the financial rails for investing and preserving pensions and sovereign wealth. The only reason you can insure anything or have long term financial instruments at all is because of special purpose vehicles that persist longer than the whims of a given regional governing party. These vehicles are infrastructure that provides financial stability for capital flows that facilitate social stability and growth. I remember the eurozone sovereign debt crisis', and to me the paper just looks like another (tawdry) setup for blaming "speculators and international financiers" for the failed technocratic policies of their peers own makings. The approach of "going upstream," is guilt by association, and it's unprincipled overreach. The paper is entertaining, and I'm glad that the networkX python library has become so accessible that social activists can use it, but I think we should hold the authors to a higher standard.

CyanBird 4y ago
From my naive perspective it almost reads that you won't be able to receive your money on the proper hongkong HSBC select account and are upset about it Reality is that tax dodging is a wildly out of control problem, and worse it is considered to be de defacto standard to even run a business at all. From south Dakota to the city of London and beyond. It is really a problem
- from 4y ago
  The outlash against oligarchs has almost nothing to do with tax dodging. If anything they pay many thousand times more than they consume in public services (they're not even in London the whole year and the property tax alone on one penthouse is probably more than the average person pays in taxes in a decade). It is more about sanctions right now than anything. This paper promotes the "facilitators" idea that if we could just eliminate a few key offshore providers we could stop the oligarchs right in their tracks. They have some nice theoretical calculations and visualizations that justify this. I think in the real world the outcome would be very different because there is no reason to think that a 1000 more "facilitators" wouldn't pop up wherever the new cool jurisdiction is. Are we really expecting the whole world to leave trillions of dollars on the table?
  - lifeisstillgood 4y ago
    Property tax in London? You mean ... council tax? For a penthouse in the City - 2,194 pa. There is a one time sales tax (stamp duty) but that's not what you mean I think. Oligarchs owning property in London are not forced to contribute to the London coffers .... not at all https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/services/council-tax/council-tax-bands-and-charges https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/services/council-tax/council...
    - from 4y ago
      So... I am supposed to believe that ultra high income people that are known to engage in a high degree of conspicuous consumption while using minimal government services contribute nothing to the budget? They don't pay way more in VAT than the average person? They don't create any construction employment that in turn is taxed? I'm not saying they're good people or anything but if anything it seems like their obvious benefit is that they contribute to the economy.
      - lifeisstillgood 4y ago
        The original post was about property tax specifically. Walk down Park Lane at night and look at the dark million dollar apartments - if no-one lives there there is not a lot of "trickle down" happening - the maids, the drivers, the restaurants, the money does not flow unless they are home. But the point of super rich is to avoid states and their taxes and capricious democratic decisions. Yachts are useful for that.

berjin 4y ago

Is it a small number? I would guess most jobs in the City of London wouldn't exist if the loopholes were closed.

nine_k 4y ago
But the current adversary (Russian oligarchs supporting the current Russian authoritarian president) is more narrowly defined, so the idea is likely more of a specific hit operation than of a complete elimination of the system of loopholes.