4 ms·

"Women's studies lost eighty per cent." I welcome this change. The less grievance studies majors there are, the better off society will be.

fknorangesite 4y ago
Truly; there is only the experiences of one half of humanity worth studying.
- Veen 4y ago
  Women's Studies isn't an academic discipline at all. It's an activist community masquerading as an academic discipline.
- slothtrop 4y ago
  Is that how you'd describe every other major, studying males?
  - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
    Actually, I think male bias is a problem in other academic fields. For example, we spent a long time thinking girls rarely have ADHD or Autism, and didn't even test drugs on women in case they might be pregnant. It's important to take a critical and objective look on why a women's studies would exist historically, in a setting where academics may not consider women worth studying. [To be clear: I'm not saying that women's studies is some kind of objectively valid hard-proof field of study or whatever. I do think however it is true that historically women have been excluded in academic study populations, which might explain why there may have been a legitimate desire to have a field of study for that underserved population.]
    - Veen 4y ago
      > historically women have been excluded in academic study populations That may have once been true, but it is no longer the case. Since the 90s, women have earned more post-graduate qualifications than men. Women have parity in obtaining medical doctorates. They dominate the medical and life sciences, the humanities, psychology and social sciences, human resources, education, veterinary medicine, and many other fields. Computer science and some other math and engineering disciplines are rare exceptions. https://www.aamc.org/data-reports/workforce/interactive-data/figure-12-percentage-us-medical-school-graduates-sex-academic-years-1980-1981-through-2018-2019 https://www.aamc.org/data-reports/workforce/interactive-data... https://www.statista.com/statistics/185160/number-of-masters-degrees-by-gender-since-1950/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/185160/number-of-masters... https://www.zippia.com/biological-scientist-jobs/demographics/ https://www.zippia.com/biological-scientist-jobs/demographic... https://www.vetxinternational.com/male-vs-female-veterinarians-how-the-sexes-compare-in-veterinary-care/ https://www.vetxinternational.com/male-vs-female-veterinaria... https://www.statista.com/statistics/240141/us-doctorate-recipients-by-gender-and-field-of-study/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/240141/us-doctorate-reci...
      - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
        I think you're misreading my point. You're arguing as if I'm saying that women's studies is still vital today because academia is still women-hostile. I'm arguing that women's studies may have at one point had a legitimate purpose, and outright dismissal and handwaving of their existence is un-intellectual. I'm therefore arguing for a more nuanced analysis of whether or not women's studies is still necessary, against the cynical dismissal in a forum whose membership is mostly men working in a field that's also mostly men.
- subpixel 4y ago
  On the contrary, you should study the experiences and products of all of humanity and not just the ones that _appeal to you_ based on your own ideas and mindset. When it comes to learning, never take the narrow view.
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
    > When it comes to learning, never take the narrow view. Every PhD thesis would like to have a word with you.
    - subpixel 4y ago
      I’m referring to education, not professional specialization. And yet, isn’t the latter’s deleterious effect on the former a clear symptom of the problem?
antisthenes 4y ago
Taking that particular topic aside, are there any other "grievance" studies majors that you can think of?
- throwawayacc5 4y ago
  "poor science in categories of gender, feminist, race, sexuality, fat, queer, cultural studies and sociology" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair
  - ismokedoinks 4y ago
    Poor "science" exists in any discipline. Look at these articles and tell me how many named studies are in gender studies, for instance. I don't really think you'll find bigger critics of the academy in other fields either. These disciplines also don't classify themselves as "sciences" either as you would have it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientific_misconduct_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientific_misconduct_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis
    - throwawayacc5 4y ago
      >Poor "science" exists in any discipline. No True Scotsman fallacy. >Look at these articles and tell me how many named studies are in gender studies, for instance. It has an entire "social science" section. Google "replication crisis gender studies" for articles covering this. >I don't really think you'll find bigger critics of the academy in other fields either. Anecdotal non sequitur. >These disciplines also don't classify themselves as "sciences" either as you would have it. I didn't classify them as science, I copied a quote from the linked Wikipedia page above. They're poorly attempting to hop on the social/political science bandwagon but there's a problem. Grievance studies are not science to begin with. They're not an academic discipline at all. It's an activist community masquerading as an academic discipline.
      - 4y ago

fknorangesite 4y ago

Truly; there is only the experiences of one half of humanity worth studying.

Veen 4y ago
Women's Studies isn't an academic discipline at all. It's an activist community masquerading as an academic discipline.
slothtrop 4y ago
Is that how you'd describe every other major, studying males?
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  Actually, I think male bias is a problem in other academic fields. For example, we spent a long time thinking girls rarely have ADHD or Autism, and didn't even test drugs on women in case they might be pregnant. It's important to take a critical and objective look on why a women's studies would exist historically, in a setting where academics may not consider women worth studying. [To be clear: I'm not saying that women's studies is some kind of objectively valid hard-proof field of study or whatever. I do think however it is true that historically women have been excluded in academic study populations, which might explain why there may have been a legitimate desire to have a field of study for that underserved population.]
  - Veen 4y ago
    > historically women have been excluded in academic study populations That may have once been true, but it is no longer the case. Since the 90s, women have earned more post-graduate qualifications than men. Women have parity in obtaining medical doctorates. They dominate the medical and life sciences, the humanities, psychology and social sciences, human resources, education, veterinary medicine, and many other fields. Computer science and some other math and engineering disciplines are rare exceptions. https://www.aamc.org/data-reports/workforce/interactive-data/figure-12-percentage-us-medical-school-graduates-sex-academic-years-1980-1981-through-2018-2019 https://www.aamc.org/data-reports/workforce/interactive-data... https://www.statista.com/statistics/185160/number-of-masters-degrees-by-gender-since-1950/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/185160/number-of-masters... https://www.zippia.com/biological-scientist-jobs/demographics/ https://www.zippia.com/biological-scientist-jobs/demographic... https://www.vetxinternational.com/male-vs-female-veterinarians-how-the-sexes-compare-in-veterinary-care/ https://www.vetxinternational.com/male-vs-female-veterinaria... https://www.statista.com/statistics/240141/us-doctorate-recipients-by-gender-and-field-of-study/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/240141/us-doctorate-reci...
    - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
      I think you're misreading my point. You're arguing as if I'm saying that women's studies is still vital today because academia is still women-hostile. I'm arguing that women's studies may have at one point had a legitimate purpose, and outright dismissal and handwaving of their existence is un-intellectual. I'm therefore arguing for a more nuanced analysis of whether or not women's studies is still necessary, against the cynical dismissal in a forum whose membership is mostly men working in a field that's also mostly men.
subpixel 4y ago
On the contrary, you should study the experiences and products of all of humanity and not just the ones that _appeal to you_ based on your own ideas and mindset. When it comes to learning, never take the narrow view.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  > When it comes to learning, never take the narrow view. Every PhD thesis would like to have a word with you.
  - subpixel 4y ago
    I’m referring to education, not professional specialization. And yet, isn’t the latter’s deleterious effect on the former a clear symptom of the problem?

antisthenes 4y ago

Taking that particular topic aside, are there any other "grievance" studies majors that you can think of?

throwawayacc5 4y ago
"poor science in categories of gender, feminist, race, sexuality, fat, queer, cultural studies and sociology" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair
- ismokedoinks 4y ago
  Poor "science" exists in any discipline. Look at these articles and tell me how many named studies are in gender studies, for instance. I don't really think you'll find bigger critics of the academy in other fields either. These disciplines also don't classify themselves as "sciences" either as you would have it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientific_misconduct_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientific_misconduct_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis
  - throwawayacc5 4y ago
    >Poor "science" exists in any discipline. No True Scotsman fallacy. >Look at these articles and tell me how many named studies are in gender studies, for instance. It has an entire "social science" section. Google "replication crisis gender studies" for articles covering this. >I don't really think you'll find bigger critics of the academy in other fields either. Anecdotal non sequitur. >These disciplines also don't classify themselves as "sciences" either as you would have it. I didn't classify them as science, I copied a quote from the linked Wikipedia page above. They're poorly attempting to hop on the social/political science bandwagon but there's a problem. Grievance studies are not science to begin with. They're not an academic discipline at all. It's an activist community masquerading as an academic discipline.
    - 4y ago